Comments from List Members
These have been edited to some degree (to remove non-relevant material) but every effort has been made not to alter any meaning. There has also been a huge volume of private correspondence between list members which is not duplicated here as it was never intended for the wider audience.
‘Falcon’ states the Eben climate is cooler and that they ‘can’t stand a lot of heat’, which obviously conflicts with Anonymous 1 statements. Again as Tim and myself have pointed out the general rule of thumb, big eyes = poor light conditions. A biological entity evolving on a planet with 35 hours of daylight within a 38 hour period is unlikely to have developed the eyes that have become so characteristic of the Grey [Eben]…...
There are conflicts with other data. Rick Doty who witnessed the EBE-2 interview (EfB book) says Zeta 1 had 11 planets. That Zeta 2 was well beyond the orbit of the 11th planet. Zeta 1 & 2 are not close binaries. They are spread very far apart. Astronomical Observations back that up. Rotation period according to EBE-2 was 38 hours. Temperatures, 65-90. Orbital tilt was 54 degrees. All this from the EBE-2 interview in the EfD book [Exempt from Disclosure]. Epsilon Eridani is a K2 type star. Age estimates put it at .5 to a billion years old. Not long enough for even amoebas to develop. ANONYMOUS I..... has got lots of things right but other things wrong or it's mixed up which makes me suspect....
Facts about Epsilon Eridani
Spectral class: K2V
Distance from Earth: 10.8
Mass: 0.7 solar masses
Surface temperature: 5200 Kelvin
Lifetime: 15 billion years
Type of star: Orange Dwarf
Habitable Zone: 0.4-0.6 AU
EE is older than our sun
I'm no astronomer but I have some questions about the positioning of the planet in relationship to the two suns. ______ ______ brings up some interesting questions about the distance between SERPO and the two suns. That distance is pretty close. The orbit must take SERPO around one sun but not the other. If there is some darkness on SERPO, where are the two suns when this is occurring. Some of the information is different from what was reported that Ebe 2 said. But maybe information wasn't reported accurately.
If Victor's source is on this email list, I'd like to ask a few questions.
1. What is the age of the Eben civilization?
2. What is the age of SERPO?
3. Planet Otto, if it is 430 million miles, what is its size? Orbit?
4. How far advance are the Ebens compared to us, at least back in the late 60s?
5. Have we ever heard from the two who stayed behind? If there was a communication system in place in 1966, is it still being used today? If we do have communication with the two left behind, what are they saying?
6. When did we actually communicate with the Eben's in order to set up this exchange program? Was it in the desert of New Mexico in 1964? Did we have continued communication with the Eben's from 1964 to 1966? If it took 9 months to travel back to SERPO, did the Eben's just stay around Earth or our solar system between 1964 and 1966?
7. Although the Ebens didn't have time, as we knew it, can we gauge how long each Eben lived?
Just a few questions, I hope they can be answered.
It is easy to debunk this whole revelation of non-eye-opening details. The story of abductee Betty Hill seeing a star map during her abduction and the determination by astronomy teacher Marjorie Fish that the two central stars in the map represented Zeta-1 and Zeta-2 Reticuli could have been the seed for intel to select these stars as a good candidate for the suns that warm the aliens home world and plant that in the public's mind from UFO cover-up Live where Rick says the aliens like strawberry ice cream (what a hoot!), Bob Lazar's claim that it was in the briefing books, etc.
Then contactees like Billy Meier (and many more) report being taken to the ET's home world or other planets and report what is there (a kind of program for civilians).
Then Steven Spielberg make a movie in 77 (CE III) where military volunteers are selected to go with the aliens to their home world for a number of years (except the aliens make another choice). Put the right elements together and presto: You have Serpo. Since Gene thinks abductions (like Hill's) are sci-fi and don't happen, we are given a substitue sci-fi story of 12 men going to the alien's home planet for 20 years. Come on, who's going to believe it? Then rip off the term 'grays" from these fabricating abductees and use that to bolster the story.
Mere planting of a story with some disagreements is not enough to bamboozle the public. Where's the proof? As an investigator, people ask me for proof and I honestly reply when there is no proof. It winds up being taken on faith. Show us the proof.
Victor: Ask him for the specs on the Alien craft, propulsion systems probably too much to ask for but he should be able to give details on interior layout etc.
Nothing really new here except added information on the make up of the planet. As for the laws of physics, your Anonymous is twisting the facts. The orbits of those two stars Zeta1 & 2 is an observational fact, not some law of physics although all galaxies, stars & planets operate under those laws from what's been observed. The two stars are spread wide apart by 350 billion miles called a wide binary. And Kepler's law was applied to the planets of Zeta 2 and it works pretty good even for elliptical orbits. Puts EBE-1's home planet #4 right where it should be, see table below. The game I think is to convince everyone that yes Anonymous does have some good information. But beware, good information from what I see is being sprinkled with bad information or disinfo. For Zeta 1 & 2 see link. For Zeta 2 Planets see table.
EBE-1 came from the 4th planet around Zeta 2. See the AU place planet 4 is sitting around Zeta 2 or 1.12 AU. Very nice place to live.... Notice that Zeta-4 orbital period is 432 days but yet it's further out than SERPO was in that Anonymous report which gave a ridiculous 865....
Planets of the Zeta 2 Reticulum System
Planet Semi-Major axis Period(days) Period(years)
Reticulum 1 0.14 (AU) 18.9 (days) 0.052 (years)
Reticulum 2 0.28 54.0 0.1481
Reticulum 3 0.56 152.9 0.4196
Reticulum 4 1.12 432.6 1.12
So one Reticulum 4 year is equal to roughly 1.12 earth years or 432 days. And it is in roughly the same position in Zeta 2 Ret's "life-zone" as the Earth is in the Sun's. Zeta 2 Ret is a G1V spectral class star, the sun is a G2V.
Gentlemen, if I have confused EBEs with Greys or committed someother unforgivable error of sharp attention to the multi-threaded arguments presented the last several days, please forgive me. However, _________'s lines below appear to me to border on arrogant derision - am I wrong?!
Of course, more or less, but usually very accurately, the Keplerian Laws apply to normal star systems.
THE TROUBLE is that several physicists in the list may have FORGOTTEN that in Kepler's law of
(orbital distance)3 / (orbital period)2 = constant
THE "constant" depends on the MASS OF THE SYSTEM.
Now that said I ask those detractors to think outside the box. First, because the source's core story might be true doesn't mean the numbers being supplied are. For all those not trained in the Sciences the numbers don't seem to matter. But I ask, they sure matter when you get a pay check or balance your check book don't they? Those numbers do matter to those of use who did a lot of number crunching in Graduate School. The source may say that he is reading from the document itself but we don't know that to be true. Wherever Anon is getting his information from he may very well be sprinkling it with made up numbers of his own in order to confuse people and provide what is called "plausible denial" which is used quite often in intelligence work.
You might be right but then again, you might be absolutely wrong. What if your calculations don't work on SERPO? You cannot keep an open mind by saying that on Earth these calculations state......................this. Well, maybe they do on earth. But maybe on SERPO things are different.
Numbers don't sell people: what's going to make this story real is fleshing it out with details about how ET lives, etc.
What do they eat? What are their favorite dishes? When they procreate, do they get the same enjoyment that mankind does from the activity?
What about this garbage about the "hive-mind" that ET has? Does that relate, or is it a different group of ET's? If so, how do they handle privacy?
There are a million questions to be answered, and stuff about how the planet's orbit are last on the list.
If ET appeared on the White House lawn, would orbital data be interesting to begin a discussion with?
Kepler's laws apply to normal star systems. Zeta 1 & 2 are a wide binary which is observed not calculated, repeat, observed not calculated. Their masses are roughly
that of our own sun so that constant in Kepler's law can get set to 1. Then you just do the rest. I'm not talking about the physical conditions on SERPO. I'm talking about the orbits of the planets and stars. See link below, Zeta 1 & 2 are separated by one tenth of a light year or 350 billion miles. Said those things a million times also. It's not me, all those numbers can be referenced... www.solstation.com/stars2/zeta-ret.htm
Victor and All, people on this list with such good questions for Anonymous would probably be interested in Paper 72 of The Urantia Book: A Revelation for
Humanity, titled GOVERNMENT ON A NEIGHBORING PLANET, 1955. It is 11 pages of fine print. Chapter titles include: Political Organization, The Home Life, The Educational System, Industrial Organization, Old-Age Insurance, Taxation, The Special Colleges, The Plan of Universal Suffrage, and Military Preparedness. The presenter of this paper said that the information in this paper would be useful to us on this planet at this time. www.urantia.org
I made this recommendation at the round table on "Democratizing World Governance" during the last State of the World Forum in 2000.
I'm a military scientist. Here are my observations regarding the SERPO information:
The question of whether the "laws of physics" apply differently from galaxy to galaxy dependent upon their spin is irrelevant to any discussion of Reticuli twins in that they are both part of the same Milky Way galaxy as is our Sun. Moreover, any distortion in our observations of OTHER galaxies which MIGHT result from the spin of our own, would apply across the board, and thus in essence negate itself since there would be no way to logically compare it to similar distortional effects which would effect observers in other galaxies in their efforts to observe us, presuming that both observations were initiated at the exact same moment of Universal time. In other words, if a third observer in some other dimension were able to compare 1 unit of time (say a single oscillation of one atom of cesium) as observed on planet earth, with 1 unit of time equally measured on the planet X in the far-away galaxy of XXXXX, that observer might conclude(after removing all other variables) that the two units were different from his perspective even though both observers in both galaxies might observe and report what they though were the same results.
A cesium clock ticks off one second on planet earth. A twin cesium clock placed in orbit and traveling at orbital velocity also ticks off one second. Observers at each location agree that one second has passed as confirmed by the read-out on their instrumentation. It is only when the two clocks are compared that it becomes obvious that there has been some distortion; yet in attempting to compare them it becomes equally obvious that the same observer cannot ever observe both at EXACTLY the same time (with a bow to Heisenberg). Thus, differences arise NOT from the observation, but from the perspective used to interpret it.
The basic Theorem: Only from an observation platform set in ANOTHER universe would an observer be able to detect and have some basis of accurately comparing distortions being produced locally in THIS universe by differences in the spin rates of the various galaxies of which it is composed. All this aside, unless the inhabitants of SERPO routinely walk on ceilings and through walls, the laws of physics apply the same there as they do here.
Lieutenant Colonel ____ ____
USAF Scientific Advisory Group
Time pieces would work but would record Earth time. If you had your PC there it would work fine if you could supply it with the correct voltage/amperage and 60 cycles. However, the PC would run on an Earth clock and record Earth time not the time on SERPO, you'd have to update your software to get it to run
on a SERPO clock which is 38 hours not 43. As for how energy is extracted from the vacuum they use what is called a Crystal Rectangle,
see book: www.amazon.com/gp/product/0976642603/002-3958207-8622461
Finally, as for the laws of Physics, an AF Col just emailed us last night and said what's been said all along. The Laws of Physics on SERPO
are no different than they are on Eart, see above... Anon has been stating nonsense when it comes to physical laws........
If the "Away Team" couldn't make their measuring devices work properly, then why even quote numbers like these?
Is a mile on earth a mile on SERPO? Recall that lengths are now referred to the wavelength of light. Is the light wavelength to be trusted? Does red light generated by excited neon atoms, which has a wavelength of 6328 Angstroms on earth, have some other value in SERPIAN length measurement units? Is there neon on SERPO? (Are their elements the same? Some have speculated that there could be different values for Planck's Constant, c, etc., in different universes.
If SERPO is in another universe all bets are off as to whether or not we could make sense of what is "normal" to them. Talk about "out of the box" thinking.)
Some of you may recognize this as the wavelength of red HeNe laser light.
If a HeNe laser were built on SERPO and the the laser light directed toward earth would the wavelength when received on earth be 6328 Å ? If so, then there should be a simple ratio between SERPIAN length units and ours. If not, then it would be much more difficult or perhaps impossible to derive SERPO physics from our own.
Moons: SERPO has two.
Complicated tides? Distances from planet? relative sizes? Periods?
Day: 43 hours
Whose hours? Makes no sense to quote this as hours unless it is intended to mean our hours, which are related to our seconds (3600 per hour) and each second is a number of oscillations of the atomic clock. If atoms "run differently" on SERPO then not only will wavelengths be different (see above) but also frequencies (time durations of oscillation). Which type of day? Does this refer to rotation of the planet relative to one of the nearby stars or relative to the distant stars? (we measure "sun days" and "distant star" days... they differ slightly because the earth rotates around the sun) ASSUME this "day" is 43 of our hours so there are 154800 of OUR sec in THEIR day as compared to 86400 of OUR sec in our day (approximations used liberally!)
Year: 865 days.
Does this mean our years? Probably not! For someone on SERPO it would be natural to measure a complete rotation around a sun (relative to distant stars) in terms of the rotations of the planet.If we assume this means THEIR days of 43 hours, then their year is (all numbers approximate) 1.3x 108 of OUR seconds, whereas our year is 3.1x107 of OUR seconds. Previously the Kepler law was applied under the assumption that the mass of the sun about which the planet rotates was the same as our sun. However, I, probably incorrectly, used 865 days as 865 of "our" days, which would be 2.37 of our years. I should have accounted for the 43 hour day. A day this long means that the rotation period is actually 865/365 x 43/24 = 4.2 of our years. For the earth, Kepler's rule can be written as follows, using years and AU
as the units of measurement (with 1 AU = radius of earth from sun)
(1)3/(1)2 = 1 (AU)3/(year)2. For a planet rotating about a sun with the mass of or sun in 4.2 years
Kepler's rule is written as r3/(4.2)2 = 1 which leads to a radius of 2.6 AU or 240 million miles, noticeably larger than the 164 million I calculated before.
One problem with this sun data: if strictly interpreted as the distance from one sun is ALWAYS 91.4 million and the distance from the other is ALWAYS 96.5 then we have an "impossibility".... or at least I can't conceive of an orbit that keeps the distance from one constant at one value and at the same time keeps the distance from the other also at one value. I could conceive of an orbit that keeps the distance from one constant while the distance to the other varies with a periodicity that depends upon the period of rotation of the suns about one another and the rotation period (SERPO year) of the planet. If interpreted as average distances from the suns as SERPO travels in an elliptical (or more complicated) orbit, then there may be some way to explain this. Of course, those suns would be orbiting one another at some distance apart so if SERPO did have an orbit that encompassed both suns, then it must orbit the center of mass of the suns (unless there is some complex orbit, as I suggested previously, like a figure 8 or a warped ellipse). Need more info on the suns, orbit, etc.
OTHER AMUSING CALCULATIONS:
DIAMETER: earth: 7,900 mi = 12,700 KM. SERPO 7,200 mi.= 11,600 km
MASS: earth - 6 x 1024 kg SERPO 5 x 1024 kg (assumed to be mass in kg)
AVG DENSITY = mass/([pi/6]D3)
For Earth = 5590 kg/m3
For SERPO = 6,100 kg/m3
g (accel of grav at surface) = GM/(Rsurf)2 where G = 6.7 x 10-11 m3kg-1s-2....
for earth (if you multiply the approximate numbers used here) g = 9.97 m/s2
(when done more accurately, 9.8 m/s2) for SERPO: 9.96 m/s2
AMAZING! (I had no idea that these numbers would come out so close)
(But why does the data table above show 9.60 m/s2. Is G different in the SERPIAN system? )
Tilt 43 degrees.
Are these "earth degrees" of arc? That is quite a tilt, by the way. Would make considerable winter-summer differences in each hemisphere (upper, lower).
Temperature: 43 to 126 deg (F? C?).
Are these their degrees or ours? I presume ours (else why quote them). An interesting experiment would be to determine whether or not the blackbody curve on their planet is the same as on earth. If the physics is really different there might be a difference in BB radiation (which relates electromagnetic wave, thermodynamics and
quantum physics) There are lots more numerical "tests" one could do to compare these two systems. Only by doing such tests can one learn where the differences really are... or if things are the same after all. First applying what is known to some new phenomenon is part of the scientific method. IF what is known
fails to explain the phenomenon, then it is time to move out of the box.
Incidentally, people have been accused of not having an "open mind" because they have asked questions that might illuminate inconsistencies in the story and numerical data. However, I would guess that anyone on this email list has an open mind..... or wouldn't be here. Just be sure not to let your brains fall out.
Neat! Of course an alternative is that the Suns are somewhat less massive than our Sol (which would shove the Mass ratio of Theirs/Sol < 1 in place of the normalized "1.0" (with the Earth Orbital Distance, and the Earth Orbital Period, the respective Length and Time units), which would mean that larger Periods would prevail at similar Central Star-to-Planet Distance, or less distance result at similar Orbital Period, compared to the Earth-Sol system.
If they were in fact OLDER (relative time over expected lifespan of such and such a mass star) than Sol, then they may already have begun Helium Burning abnd a climb in Brightness, which could allow a bit lower mass stars than Sol to shine as brightly.
Now novel several-body configurations have been found occasionally over the last century, but most effort has gone into the restricted 3-Body problem IN A PLANE. I can imagine a possibility with two similar stars there might be a chance of stable manifold for a a small planet in a 'slow wobbling orbit' around the center of mass of the two suns, approximately with 'normal' axis the instantaneous line between the two stars. I write the quotes around "normal" because I expect the orbit to reside NOT in a Plane but RATHER in a torus centered on the center of mass of the two Stars.
However, the squeaker of a coincidence for surface gravitational acceleration value (9.97 and 9.96 - compared to engineering assumed Earth normal of 9.806 m/s2) you show below suggests that some of the "data" has been cooked in a whimsical way.
If Serpo is slightly similar in size than Earth but has a higher bulk mass density, then I certainly see a possibility of less of the lighter mantle elements O, K, Mg, S, Si than with Earth, certainly less water of hydration in upper mantel rock, and maybe less crustal pore space.
I’m curious. If Mr Anonymous is retired, as stated, how does he have direct access to the original documents? Paul states all viewing must be inside the secured facility. Rick confirmed that the information is highly guarded. Once retired, does one retain special access to secured facilities?
From what Mr Anon. has already said about seeking permission from the few surviving managers, I got the impression that his project had long since ceased to be. Maybe he has the document because he was the 'document controller'?
Perhaps, although I would doubt he would be allowed to take the documents with him on retirement, custodian or not. I doubt military rules and regulations differ that greatly between the States and the UK. Hopefully Rick or Gene will advise on usual procedure, perhaps they can also advise whether there is only one copy of the documents – the original, or were photocopies taken for distribution amongst specialised departments?
I've already had independent confirmation from three sources now that the late Dr Carl Sagan WAS involved in such a project and Project Serpo served as the inspiration for his '85 novel and '97 movie, "Contact."
I asked my father, who was a Lieutenant Colonel in the AF during the mid 60s, about the scientific calculator. He said the military had some sophisticated calculators, some used on space missions. He wasn't sure if they were classified or not but knew the NSA had some and assumed the AF had some. For a mission of this importance, I'm sure all the NEW items were taken.
If our team had two energy devices and those devices allowed our team to use Earth based voltage, current and wattage, then why not use it to power the clocks? But maybe there is more to it. Maybe they had to ration the use of the energy devices or maybe there is more to it than we can understand. I'll leave an open mind on this one.
[Pertaining to a private discussion about how easy it would have been to establish communication with alien race] As for the communication problem. We differ here. I have traveled around the world. I spoke conversational Russian and fluent German. Even in Russia, I had problems communicating with the people. Sure, I could speak with them, but I didn't always fully communicate my questions and could not always understand their answers. Understanding customs, social behavior and cultures also are involved in the communication process. I could not imagine living on another planet (although I'd love to try), trying to learn an entirely different form of language and then trying to communicate with a true Alien civilization. I can understand the difficulties they must have had. Mr. Anonymous did state we learned (or at least two members of the team) learned to communicate through a form of sign language. But we are foreign to their civilization, social system, social behavior patterns, etc. We could not possibly understand their communication cycle. Stop and think, on Earth, although there may be different countries, cultures, languages, etc, we still all are human beings. Even without language, we can communicate simple things that are the same in any languages or cultures. However, on a foreign planet, this could not be true.
I agree, 9,000 lbs of supplies for 12 people for a 10 year mission isn't a lot. Military C-Rations weighed about 14 ounces per meal. Now, they did have some special meals created for flight crews. Those meals were packaged in plastic bags, rather than cans, as the old C-Rations were packaged. Maybe they had some special C-Rations. Mr. Anonymous didn't relate how much of the supplies were perishable and how much was equipment. Then maybe there was other equipment that wasn't mentioned.
As for the electric heaters. Maybe our team just came prepared. I spent many years in the military and were forced to take supplies that were not needed. Remember, this was a military mission, they had different protocols than civilian missions.
As for our team wondering around the planet. I agree, we must have taken photographs. Even if we couldn't understand what we were seeing, we could later study the photographs and try to use reasoning and figure it out! But I cannot possibly put myself in that predicament. They were on a new world, not inside a country on planet Earth.
I don't believe Mr. Anonymous is reading from the official report. I think he/she is reading the document and then putting the facts in his own words. Or maybe Victor is changing words to protect Mr. Anonymous.
Mistakes like wattage, compare to amperage or voltage, doesn't seem important to me. If I was reading a medical document, which contains medical terms, I'd probably explain it later using layman's terms. The use of wattage versus amperage (current) could be just a lay person trying to explain something. Maybe the word was amperage or current and Mr. Anonymous remembered it as wattage. Wattage would be important in powering an electrical appliance. If you travel on Earth, you know each country has different voltage.
The water problem can easily be explained. Maybe they meant filter and boil and Mr. Anonymous just didn't state that. I agree that boiling the water just kills the bacteria and doesn't do much to the chemicals, except bring some to the top. Maybe boiling the water meant the entire purification process.
As for the aircraft accident. Can't explain that. But maybe our team was watching a display or was near the airport when it happened. Don't know about this one.
One thing that concerns me is the radiation the team was receiving. I would think the team had some sort of radiation detection equipment. Back then, they had Radacs. We also had dosimeters. I'm sure each team member wore one and must have read it periodically. Knowing this was a military mission, someone must have been designated a health monitor, probably the physicians. If the team realized they were receiving large doses of radiation, why didn't they bring this to the Eben's attention. If the Ebens were so benevolent, then they might have provided some form of protection to the team members or provided them with an anti-radiation pill or something. Or, once the team received the maximum dose, why didn't the Eben's bring them home? One of my former colleagues thinks the radiation could be something different, in another wavelength and thus our team members didn't register that particular radiation dose.
I am keeping an open mind. I have a lot of questions about Mr. Anonymous (could be a she) and the information he/she is providing. He/she sure sounds as if they were there or had some very serious access to the people and information. My uncle was involved in the program. But he had kept pretty quiet about it. He has opened up somewhat since this information has been released but he hasn't analyzed the information, like we and others are doing. I'm waiting to bend his ear during our Thanksgiving get together. Maybe he'll open up.
I have been in contact with many former colleagues. Some had access to the program and stand by Mr. Anonymous information 100%. Others, like myself, who knew about the program but never in any details, are more skeptical.
Lets wait and see what happens regarding the future disclosure process. I do find myself waiting for more information, as if reading a thriller and waiting to turn the next page!
At the very least, we should let Anon dump all the data he has/can into the public domain then begin an analysis. If he has access to thousands of pages, then we are seeing the most basic summary of a potentially huge and important dataset. I personally don't feel able to make any further judgements as to its veracity until I've read as much as possible.
For the case of circular orbits around a star - which means the planets' masses must be negligible compared to the mass of the substitute 'Sun', which means that the
mass of the stellar system can be taken as the mass of the star, I already already discussed and showed the dependency of the R3/T2 ratio on the mass of the Star of an Alternative 'Solar' System way back on 9 Nov 2005 on this list - or did no one bother to understand what I wrote? The quote << ... >> is soon below. If the Circular Case requires dependency of the ratio on the mass of the central planetary system's star, then so do the elliptical orbit cases. Of course, in any REAL multi planetary system, no orbit is likely exactly a closed ellipse anyhow, due to interference of other planets - such as Jupiter and Venus in the case of Earth's Orbit, as well of course our Sacred Mother Moon, so the Kepler game is already in an IDEAL WORLD, one of many preferred by the Cowards of Physics, loathe even to admit that the Restricted Three Body Problem of Mathematician Henri Poincare a century ago (SUN, Jupiter and ignorably small mass planet like Mars, in a plane) is NOT QUITE YET EVEN A DONE, DONE Deal, let alone non planar variations, especially when no mass in the system is considered neglect able.
Simulations? ... Hmmmm, maybe say with say 32 bit reals on a Many CPU 'Stupor Confuter' using wildly inappropriate for nonlinear systems imminently parallelizable but oh so weak algorithms?! ... Well, The FASTER IN, the faster out, yes, FASTER but NOT better! Nothing substitutes for highly accurate calculations, good algorithms competent for truly nonlinear systems, and high precision, certainly not SPEED. Then there are STILL those 'SECULAR TERMS' which vexed all! Here's what I wrote 8 days ago, and please note that "PRIMARY" of a 'SOLAR' System has a known Astronomical meaning, which is the STAR at the Center of the Planetary System:
have FORGOTTEN that in Kepler's law of ((orbital distance)3)/((orbital
period)2) = constant, THE "constant" depends on the
MASS OF THE SYSTEM. To maintain equal orbital distances, more massive central
stars require higher planetary orbital speeds, hence reduced planetary Orbital
Periods, while less massive stars produce equal orbital distances by greater
planetary Orbital Periods.
Please see below. The planet mass drops out in the derivation. So all you have left is the mass of the Sun or Star. Kepler's third law is independent of planet mass....
Here we have an expression which indicates that T2 is proportional to a3; but the constant of proportionality doesn't look like it is the same quantity for all planets -- after all, it seems to be a function of m and l, which are certainly different for each planet. Thus, we'll continue on with our proof. We know from Kepler's first law that e p = l2/(G m2 M). We can use this information to substitute into our expression for T2 to find that
T2 = 4 pi2 (m2/l2) l2/(G m2 M) a3.
The m2 and l2 cancel, and we are left with
T2 = (4 pi2)/(G M) a3.
The constant of proportionality, (4 pi2)/(G M), is the same quantity for all planets – it depends only on G, the constant of universal gravitation, and M, the mass of the Sun. Therefore, the square of the period of a planet is proportional to the cube of the length of the semimajor axis, and this proportionality is the same for all planets. This is Kepler's third law.
The derivation is good for BOTH ellipses and circles.
What is alarming is the obvious de-linking of the mass ET/EI encounter-phenomenon from the ‘EBEN’ visitation and subsequent ‘exchange programme’. As absolutely fascinating and WOW provoking the EBEN planet is, some of us would like this question answered……
Q: WHY and WHAT are the Aliens doing here on Earth?
[in response to Anonymous's 9th posting]
Ok, let me get this straight. Kepler's laws would work except one must take into consideration the gravitation pull of the other planets and suns (2) in the SERPO solar system. Dr. Sagan created something that made the equations work based on the information supplied by the Team.
So, what do we have? Dr. Sagan made Kepler's Laws work? Or, Dr Sagan created something different and that worked?
Nearly 50 years ago, Eric Frank Russell wrote Allamagoosa, the funniest science fiction short story it’s ever been my delight to read. In this exquisite little tale, the captain of a space cruiser is notified that there is to be a mandatory routine inventory inspection. It’s a hassle, but he must comply. After days of work, everything is accounted for except for one item, which reads simply: "offog, one".
No-one can explain the offog and no-one has a clue what it is. Fearful of admitting to his superiors that the item has been lost, he fabricates a little white lie that he’s awfully sorry, but the offog had disintegrated in a hyperspace jump. The story ends with the captain staring at an urgent telex recalling every ship in the galactic fleet – at a cost of trillions of dollars – pending an investigation into the disintegration of the ship’s official dog.
So what’s a "DIM"? Here is another "gross consistency". It rings true that Anon reports this faithfully but does not know what it is. Neither do I: I’ve been staring at my keyboard looking at every combination of typos (like the offog), to no avail. It may well be an acronym – but what for? Maybe the ex-military list members might guess what it is. Furthermore, we need to know if it’s a D.I.M., DIM, a Dim, or a dim. Can Anon clarify?
Here’s one more.
In Dan Sherman’s book, Above Black, in which he reveals how he was groomed and trained as a telepathic communicator with a race of ETs whom he received information from and about but never actually met, Sherman states that he learned that "time" – as we humans know it – does not have the same meaning for "them". They still age as we do but are not bound by the physics of time as we currently are. Their means of travel across vast distances is heavily dependent on the manipulation of time but not as we perceive it.
Sherman asked if they can travel through time: e.g., can they go backward-or-forward in time? He was told that it was not possible to witness a reality that occurred in some other time but the present. In order to go back in time, one must assume that there exists a reference point from which to measure backward or forward. This is an impossibility. Essentially, they weren't able to travel through time but around time and from time. Sherman says he never really understood what this meant. Their mode of propulsion was somehow that they used "time" and electromagnetic energy. Also they said that our sun was very unique; and that someday we would understand how it really worked and how we could utilize the same methods that they themselves use but on a smaller scale.
(references: www.stealthskater.com/Documents/Sherman_1.doc, www.aboveblack.com)
There are other candidates for "gross consistencies", but I’ll keep my powder dry for the moment. I’m noting them carefully. The problem, of course, with these is that they might also be reasons to dismiss everything. It’s like strawberry ice cream. I lean to thinking that (like the anomalous orbital data) that’s so absurd it has to be true, because no-one would dare invent it. The false information component of disinformation has to be credible for the purpose of the disinformation to be achieved.
Logically there are four possibilities:
1) Anon is a pathological prankster and the reported data is either all invented or clumsily culled from other sources and added to a wild novelistic story.
2) Anon is operating to an agenda and the information is deliberately distorted, but contains a core of extraordinary truth.
3) Anon is doing his best to report data from an indirect source (personal notes, his own short or long term memory, or another person), but accidental errors, omissions and additions have occurred.
4) Anon is reporting everything faithfully and accurately as best he can present it.
Only possibility (1) means everything should be rejected. The other three necessarily mean that the story deserves close attention.
I'm always interested in hearing about Dan Sherman, a case that I think has been HIGHLY ignored.
You may know that there is a huge amount of information in the available literature, reportedly coming from contacts with off world beings, that supports what Dan Sherman states he was told. Specifically that the nature of "time" is not at all like we think about it. In many cases, the beings have even said that "time" does not exist. I feel they mean for themselves and their technology, it does not exist. After all, if you can travel into the past and future at will, does "time" still exist. If one had a teleporter into which you could step and it would instantly send you to any place on earth, one might say that (with that technology) "distance" no longer exists. If your transportation time is near instantaneous, does distance matter any longer? Conceptually, no! Distance is no longer a barrier to travel and usually our current distance barriers also includes the time component for making ones way across that distance. Some feel that the time itself is the main factor. If not, why would we be building faster and faster jets and planning hypersonic craft to get us there even more quickly?
One case I've studied extensively says the beings are capable of near instantaneous jumps in distance that we simply cannot imagine. They claim that once technology reaches the point where one can access a certain "extra-dimensional" area of the universe, travel over millions of light years is accomplished in the blink of an eye. Our science fiction can imagine that, but most of our real minds simply cannot believe it. But, if true, as in the teleporter example above, then distance and time become just concepts and no longer barriers. So distance and time would "no longer exist." Obviously, that's a technicality, a concept, because the miles between points are still the same - but the "time" it takes to cross the distance has essentially dissolved. Some type of system for measurement for crew changes, sleep periods, meeting times, etc. would still need to exist, simply for convenience and scheduling sake, so things operate in some sort of sync.
You may have also heard that some offworlders have stated that there are multiple timelines of existence. And that if you go back to the same point in time on several different occasions, some things may be slightly different each time (the idea of free will modifying events in parallel tracks of time so that the generalities are there, but the absolute specifics can vary). Is that true? Hey, maybe one day we'll know - but I'm not holding my breath. Ha! The only hope for really understanding fascinating things like these any time soon is to get a little help from those alien beings that are so far advanced. So, if you happen to know any, send them over to my place... I've got a lot of questions to ask them! :)
PS: The worrisome thing for me about Dan Sherman's information is that he was trained for the time when there would be a huge disruption of the worlds communication systems from some disaster. The end of that Mayan calendar is fast approaching and some of the alien beings have said that there is a severe problem with the planet looming. That's gonna' hit right about the time I'm supposed to retire! BUMMER! :)
What sort of combination of polar axis tilt and planet rotation about its axis would result in 35 hours of daylight and 3 of night at some location on the plane for anything other than a relatively short time during the 600 day year?
A location where the sun shines for 35/38 of a day must be just "below" the equivalent of our arctic circle. 54 degree tilt means that their "arctic circle " is at latitude 26 deg. Assuming the rotational angular momentum is conserved for the planet in the book (ooops, but maybe we can't assume this for the SERPIAN SYSTEM where nutty professors are not allowed to assume anything about the physics?) then the planet has seasons because the spin axis points in the same direction (relative to the distant stars.... a "Machian" effect) as the planet goes around its star . A location where, at some time during the year, there are 3 hours of darkness (assumed to be loss of light from a SINGLE sun) in a 38 hour rotation period must be at a latitude a few degrees lower than 26 degrees, i.e., rather close to the SERPIAN equator. So for summertime in the "northern hemisphere" we have 35 hours of daylight,3 hours dark. Conversely, 300 days later (1/2 year) there is winter in the northern hemisphere and the sun is above the horizon for about 3 hours and the rest of the day is dark. Sounds as if it would get quite cold in the winter.
Ok, what did this guy say? Is he right? I hear about a 100 different descriptions of Kepler's law.
The senior theory (essentially proven) is Newton's inverse square law for gravity. For a simple system, Kepler's Laws are a fallout of what a planetary solution looks like (for the simple case of a single planet circling a massive sun). For a complex situation (like a planet interacting with two suns, several planets, or whatever) you have to go back to Newton's law and solve a many-body problem which takes a computer. In this case Kepler's Laws are only an approximation, since they hold only for the simplest case.
The EBE-1 and EBE-2 information is very consistent with what has been astronomically observed for Zeta 1 & 2. Meaning the 4th planet from Zeta 2 for EBE-1 and the 3rd planet from Zeta 1 for EBE-2. They are mentioned in the context of two separate solar systems. So, you're willing to trash all that information because of what Anon says? I'm sure not for the one big reason I just cited or, that EBE information is very consistent with what's been observed scientifically...
The thought occurred to me that another explanation for some of the anomalies in Anon’s single expanded account (i.e. taking all the data together) might be that the data from two different planets, in two different systems (maybe from two different exchanges!) had somehow got all compressed into one, possibly through totally innocent reasons. If we hypothesise that, many if not all of the difficulties would immediately be resolved.
We need to keep collecting data until the anomalies really drop out; and if you take the entirety of data in the UFOlogical field, there are a lot of anomalies!! The one thing I think we can be sure of and all agree on is that SOME of it is correct. That’s the common ground of everyone on the list, the thing that unites us. The rest is detail.
Incidentally, the "senior theory" mentioned above, re: Newton's gravitational attraction law, is only part of the "equation". The other parts are:
(1) the equivalence of inertial and gravitational mass, and
(2) the centrifugal force due to orbiting keeps the suns from crashing together and is balanced: M1 omega2 R1 = M2 omega2 R2, where omega is the angular rate of rotation, (v1/R1 = v2/R2). Each M is the inertial mass which has been shown to equal the gravitational mass and is a basis for Einstein's theory of gravity.
This centrifugal force (each sun pulling on the other) is what results in the rotation about the center of mass at some location along the line joining the the two suns. The center of mass is found by using R = R1 + R2 and M1R1 = M2R2, where R is the distance between the suns and the gravitational force between the suns is GM1M2/R2. When M1 = M2 the center of mass is at the center point of the line joining the centers of the suns. When one mass is huge compared to the other (as with a planet orbiting a sun), the center of mass becomes very close to the center of the most massive sun and the sun "stands still" as the planet orbits.
Note that the recent discoveries of planets have been based on the fact that if a planet is heavy enough the center of mass of the sun-planet system will not be at the center of the sun. In this case the sun orbits the center of mass and this orbiting can produce a doppler shift in the spectrum of light from the sun as the sun goes around the center of mass.
Interesting, to say the least. But I have several questions regarding the language problems. As I understand from previous postings, when our team landed on SERPO, they had trouble with the language. Now this seems to contradict that information. If our team had over one year to hone their Eben language skills, why did they have problem upon arrival to the planet? Is there more than one language spoken on SERPO?
I realize how difficult learning a foreign language can be. I learned Russian several years ago. I went through one year of Russian language training. That didn't make me an expert in the language. God knows how difficult the Eben language would be to learn. No words, just sounds and tones. How would we, as humans, be able to speak it? Would we have to make certain sounds or tones? I can't understand how humans could do that.
Gene's Final Report Number does look like the system used AFOSI from the 1980s. 80HQD would be HQ AFOSI 1980. Examples: 8017D would be AFOSI District 17 Kirtland AFB, NM. 80PJD would be a Special Unit which operated out of Nevada and in the 80's.
Reference the earlier comment below: Zeta Ret 1 only has 79% of the luminosity of our own sun. That and the distance of 1.39 AU from their own sun would explain the big eyes. Those 35 hour days and 3 hours of darkness would compensate for the less luminosity and distance but not totally. They'd still have those big eyes.....
‘Falcon’ states the Eben climate is cooler and that they ‘can’t stand a lot of heat’, which obviously conflicts with Anonymous 1 statements. Again as Tim and myself have pointed out the general rule of thumb, big eyes = poor light conditions. A biological entity evolving on a planet with 35 hours of daylight within a 38 hour period is unlikely to have developed the eyes that have become so characteristic of the Grey [Eben]…...
I have looked up DIM in the military reference manuals. Here is what I gathered:
1. DIM - Defense Intelligence Manual
2. DIM - Digital Intelligence Message (came out in 1992)
3. DIM - Direct Image Message (an intelligence photo term)
4. DIM - Dynometer Instrument Metabolism (have no idea what this is)
5. DIM - Delicate Image Module (some sort of photo analysis machine)
That is all I can find. But my reference material is new. I can't find anything older than 1985.
Having served my country for 20 years, I do know that any military units would take back up weapons. Remember, we had no idea what to expect on Serpo. I find it very smart for our team to take such a device. Don't think in present day terms, think back then.
I would like to suggest a new way of looking at time, which seems to clear up some of the Anonymous references.
If any particle, say an electron, is given a 'push', it doesn't move immediately: it just sits there for a time known as 'Tau': 2e2/3mc3, or 6.26 x 10-24 seconds. After that time, it is instantaneously found to be moving at whatever velocity the 'push' imparts to it. This non-local behavior in time has been known for better than half a century, and is mostly just ignored as 'too small' to worry about. This was the conclusion of F. Rohrlich in 1962: "The Theory of the Electron":
In his equation 9, he (incorrectly) derives this same time, 6 x 10-24 seconds, noting that it represents "a non-local behavior in time" with "a lack of causality" at these time-intervals, but 'too small' to inviolate the theory.
However in particle colliders, this time interval can't be ignored, for every interaction, however violent, takes this minimum time before anything 'happens'. Modern non-technical 'explanations' of this can be found several places, for instance in Dr. Sam Treiman's book "The Odd Quantum" (Princeton University Press, 2000) pp. 97-98 in which he shows that the wave function does not change from T = 0 to T = Tau, with all the change happening at the latter point.
If this same behavior were measured as the output of an analog-to-digital converter, say a music synthesizer, it would be instantly recognized that the time Tau was the interval between digital slices of the analog wave. To put it more simply, a digital converter puts an analog wave, say a musical sequence, through a 'baloney slicer', giving a digital number to each intercept of the wave by each 'slice'. In the electron's case, the impulse is delivered at T = 0, but there is no measurement until the later time T = Tau, at which time the next 'slice' shows all the change in the analog wave over the (unmeasured) interval Tau. (The digital number is a 'point-particle' result, although the electron is and has evolved as 'wave'.)
This leads directly to the conclusion that time is quantized, a frequency, the interval Tau being the time between 'baloney slices' of an analog wave, the 'refresh rate' of our reality. Heisenberg was groping toward this conclusion, noting that Planck's Constant 'h' was not a 'pure' constant, but a constant of proportionality. He always thought it was the 'shadow' of some 'pure' constant in some other dimension: he chose distance, deriving the above relationship as a distance, 2e2/3mc2, or about 1.8 x 10-15 meters. (This is the measured diameter of the nucleon, NOT a coincidence.) He tried to slice the universe into tiny cubes this size, but this didn't work, so he abandoned it.
However Planck's Constant has the dimensions of energy times time. Since Planck was working with black-body energy, it has always simply been assumed that energy is quantized. However everything works exactly the same if one assumes that time is the quantized entity. And as Heisenberg noted, this interval, whether measured as distance or time, is exactly the 'width' of the uncertainty relationship, as of course the analog wave is unmeasured, hence uncertain, anywhere between 'slices'.
This conclusion, that time is quantized, or a frequency, of course has immense implications, the most startling perhaps being that we may live in a 'virtual', rather than a 'real', reality.
However if one recognizes that time is a frequency, one can then look for means of altering this frequency. This might mean that ones subjective time might remain the same, but the 'rest of the universe' might flash by much faster. "Visitors" have always said that time is much different from our understanding of it. I don't have the reference in front of me, but in the book "Witnessed" by Budd Hopkins an abductee describes being taken from a pool party in the midst of her family, which was frozen in place, splash from the pool hanging in air. Such a change in time's frequency might result in a journey of thirty-some light years taking only seven months or so.
Further implications of quantized time can be found in my papers, published in "Infinite Energy" magazine, issues 43, and 44, and available on the web at
DIM Was "Duty-Information-Manual". The actual operations plan for the journey.
[This information, reported verbatim below, was supplied to Bill Ryan personally by an active duty Air Force Lieutenant Colonel assigned to the Pentagon. I (BR) have been in correspondence with him on a number of topics and have found him to be measured, intelligent, thorough, reliable and honest, as well as being a most pleasant and decent man. He wishes his name to be withheld but would like this new information to be made known.
The correspondent's friend, referred to below, is a retired Air Force Colonel, who worked in Air Force Intelligence for 33 years (a later correction of the estimated figure of 30 years as originally stated).]
Yesterday, I visited an old retired USAF Colonel. This Colonel had served 30 years in USAF Intelligence. I don't know his exact time frame but it was sometime around 1955 to 1985. I have been friends with this Colonel for about five years. His son, who is also my friend, serves in my unit. Because of his extensive intelligence time, I wanted to run all this past him to see if he might know something about the information being released by Victor. The Colonel doesn't have email so I printed all the information from Anonymous and provided him a copy. I watched him read the most current email, one with all the postings. I watched his eyes and facial expressions. After he was finished, he stated, "Oh my God, who on this Earth would release such classified material"? I then asked him if all this information was real. His simple answer was, "yes, all real". I then asked the Colonel if he had been involved with this project. He said, yes, he was involved in the communications aspect of this operation from about 1961 until 1965. He was also on the debriefing team. He wouldn't provide too much information, saying that unless he saw that all information was declassified, he could not comment on details. I thanked him and left.
I was startled, to say the least. Wow, this is actually true. I always thought some of it was true but I had some doubts about details that have been released.
We may just be on the Verge of a major release of information about the most important part of our History.
I was stationed at RAF Bentwaters in the UK when Spielberg's "Close Encounters of the Third Kind" first made its way around the overseas circuit. As was customary, the "Daily Bulletin" (an informal posting of each day's events) included mention of CE III as feature-of-the-day at the base theater.
"Daily Bulletins" were a single-page feature displayed at a particular spot on every unit's official bulletin board. It was replaced every day, and each military member was expected to read it. What I found most interesting was mention in this particular bulletin that everybody should go see this particular movie.
I could not remember any such advice in previous bulletins, and never saw it repeated during the three years I was there. For whatever reason, someone obviously thought Close Encounters an important film...
Regarding the ED (Energy Device) recovered from the (presumably) downed Roswell ship, the dimensions quoted in the 'Exempt from Disclosure' book are 8.24" wide, 11.65" tall, and 2.8" thick. With the exception of thickness, this is close to what what Anonymous reported in answer to a question about the ED.
14 February 2006
Victor Martinez published the following messages he had received over the preceding weeks and months and had never hitherto made public:
8 March 2006
"From that point on, they were identified by number only. Even each Team Member identified the others by their three-digit number. They were never to use their real names. Once they left planet Earth and traveled on to Serpo, they gave each other nicknames. For example, the Team Commander was identified as, "Skipper," the medical officers were identified as "Doc-1" and "Doc-2," the pilots were identified as, "Sky-King" and "Flash-Gordon." Even though it wouldn't make any difference if they used their real names on Serpo, they were disciplined enough to continue either using the nicknames or the three-digit numbers."
Most people today have either never heard of Sky King or have long forgotten about him. However, it wouldn't be surprising that a young pilot in 1965 would have adopted the nickname of "Sky King."
9 March 2006
Ref SERPO. Back in 1985 Ernie Kellerstrass told me an interesting story that while he was assigned to FTD-WP from 1975 to his retirement in 1979 he ran across a very spooked individual in his section or FTD/TQTR which is where I worked starting in 1983. This individual kept saying that we had turned humans over to the Aliens for nefarious reasons. The guy eventually had a nervous breakdown and was moved out of the section. I didn't connect things up until I contacted Rick [Doty] in 1998 who said he knew of the case. It seems this person was present at NTS in 1965 and witnessed the exchange taking place. He was later reassigned to FTD-WP. I don't know how long he had been at FTD before having the nervous breakdown but it sounded like Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome (PTSD) which can occur years after the event. Also, in below Darren Edmunson mentioned the 1965 exchange to me in a 2000 e-mail. Both Darren and Paul McGovern knew Ernie..... Robert Collins
Subject: Re: James Jesus Angleton
According to my contacts, Angleton was never a member of MJ12. He might have
Angleton, in 1970, wrote a counterintelligence assessment of the UFO
Too bad we couldn't get our hands on this document. I'm sure it is tucked