Updated: 6 July 2012
Updated: 13 April 2011
Updated: 6 March 07
Updated: 1 July 2008
Updated: 24 August 06
Updated: 9 March 06

Comments from List Members

These have been edited to some degree (to remove non-relevant material) but every effort has been made not to alter any meaning. There has also been a huge volume of private correspondence between list members which is not duplicated here as it was never intended for the wider audience.

 


4 November:
‘Falcon’ states the Eben climate is cooler and that they ‘can’t stand a lot of heat’, which obviously conflicts with Anonymous 1 statements. Again as Tim and myself have pointed out the general rule of thumb, big eyes = poor light conditions. A biological entity evolving on a planet with 35 hours of daylight within a 38 hour period is unlikely to have developed the eyes that have become so characteristic of the Grey [Eben]…...

7 November
There are conflicts with other data. Rick Doty who witnessed the EBE-2 interview (EfB book) says Zeta 1 had 11 planets. That Zeta 2 was well beyond the orbit of the 11th planet. Zeta 1 & 2 are not close binaries. They are spread very far apart. Astronomical Observations back that up. Rotation period according to EBE-2 was 38 hours. Temperatures, 65-90. Orbital tilt was 54 degrees. All this from the EBE-2 interview in the EfD book [Exempt from Disclosure]. Epsilon Eridani is a K2 type star. Age estimates put it at .5 to a billion years old. Not long enough for even amoebas to develop. ANONYMOUS I..... has got lots of things right but other things wrong or it's mixed up which makes me suspect....

7 November
Facts about Epsilon Eridani
Spectral class: K2V
Distance from Earth: 10.8
Luminosity: 0.3L
Mass: 0.7 solar masses
Surface temperature: 5200 Kelvin
Lifetime: 15 billion years
Type of star: Orange Dwarf
Habitable Zone: 0.4-0.6 AU
EE is older than our sun

7 November
I'm no astronomer but I have some questions about the positioning of the planet in relationship to the two suns. ______ ______ brings up some interesting questions about the distance between SERPO and the two suns. That distance is pretty close. The orbit must take SERPO around one sun but not the other. If there is some darkness on SERPO, where are the two suns when this is occurring. Some of the information is different from what was reported that Ebe 2 said. But maybe information wasn't reported accurately.

If Victor's source is on this email list, I'd like to ask a few questions.
1. What is the age of the Eben civilization?
2. What is the age of SERPO?
3. Planet Otto, if it is 430 million miles, what is its size? Orbit?
4. How far advance are the Ebens compared to us, at least back in the late 60s?
5. Have we ever heard from the two who stayed behind? If there was a communication system in place in 1966, is it still being used today? If we do have communication with the two left behind, what are they saying?
6. When did we actually communicate with the Eben's in order to set up this exchange program? Was it in the desert of New Mexico in 1964? Did we have continued communication with the Eben's from 1964 to 1966? If it took 9 months to travel back to SERPO, did the Eben's just stay around Earth or our solar system between 1964 and 1966?
7. Although the Ebens didn't have time, as we knew it, can we gauge how long each Eben lived?

Just a few questions, I hope they can be answered.

7 November
It is easy to debunk this whole revelation of non-eye-opening details. The story of abductee Betty Hill seeing a star map during her abduction and the determination by astronomy teacher Marjorie Fish that the two central stars in the map represented Zeta-1 and Zeta-2 Reticuli could have been the seed for intel to select these stars as a good candidate for the suns that warm the aliens home world and plant that in the public's mind from UFO cover-up Live where Rick says the aliens like strawberry ice cream (what a hoot!), Bob Lazar's claim that it was in the briefing books, etc.

Then contactees like Billy Meier (and many more) report being taken to the ET's home world or other planets and report what is there (a kind of program for civilians).

Then Steven Spielberg make a movie in 77 (CE III) where military volunteers are selected to go with the aliens to their home world for a number of years (except the aliens make another choice). Put the right elements together and presto: You have Serpo. Since Gene thinks abductions (like Hill's) are sci-fi and don't happen, we are given a substitue sci-fi story of 12 men going to the alien's home planet for 20 years. Come on, who's going to believe it? Then rip off the term 'grays" from these fabricating abductees and use that to bolster the story.

Mere planting of a story with some disagreements is not enough to bamboozle the public. Where's the proof? As an investigator, people ask me for proof and I honestly reply when there is no proof. It winds up being taken on faith. Show us the proof.

9 November
Victor: Ask him for the specs on the Alien craft, propulsion systems probably too much to ask for but he should be able to give details on interior layout etc.

9 November
Nothing really new here except added information on the make up of the planet. As for the laws of physics, your Anonymous is twisting the facts. The orbits of those two stars Zeta1 & 2 is an observational fact, not some law of physics although all galaxies, stars & planets operate under those laws from what's been observed. The two stars are spread wide apart by 350 billion miles called a wide binary. And Kepler's law was applied to the planets of Zeta 2 and it works pretty good even for elliptical orbits. Puts EBE-1's home planet #4 right where it should be, see table below. The game I think is to convince everyone that yes Anonymous does have some good information. But beware, good information from what I see is being sprinkled with bad information or disinfo. For Zeta 1 & 2 see link. For Zeta 2 Planets see table.
www.solstation.com/stars2/zeta-ret.htm
EBE-1 came from the 4th planet around Zeta 2. See the AU place planet 4 is sitting around Zeta 2 or 1.12 AU. Very nice place to live.... Notice that Zeta-4 orbital period is 432 days but yet it's further out than SERPO was in that Anonymous report which gave a ridiculous 865....

Planets of the Zeta 2 Reticulum System
===============================================================
Planet        Semi-Major axis        Period(days)      Period(years)
---------------------------------------------------------------
Reticulum 1    0.14 (AU)              18.9 (days)      0.052 (years)
Reticulum 2    0.28                     54.0                0.1481
Reticulum 3    0.56                     152.9              0.4196
Reticulum 4    1.12                     432.6              1.12
---------------------------------------------------------------
So one Reticulum 4 year is equal to roughly 1.12 earth years or 432 days. And it is in roughly the same position in Zeta 2 Ret's "life-zone" as the Earth is in the Sun's. Zeta 2 Ret is a G1V spectral class star, the sun is a G2V.
9 November
Gentlemen, if I have confused EBEs with Greys or committed someother unforgivable error of sharp attention to the multi-threaded arguments presented the last several days, please forgive me. However, _________'s lines below appear to me to border on arrogant derision - am I wrong?!

Of course, more or less, but usually very accurately, the Keplerian Laws apply to normal star systems.

THE TROUBLE is that several physicists in the list may have FORGOTTEN that in Kepler's law of

(orbital distance)3 / (orbital period)2 = constant

THE "constant" depends on the MASS OF THE SYSTEM.
10 November
Now that said I ask those detractors to think outside the box. First, because the source's core story might be true doesn't mean the numbers being supplied are. For all those not trained in the Sciences the numbers don't seem to matter. But I ask, they sure matter when you get a pay check or balance your check book don't they? Those numbers do matter to those of use who did a lot of number crunching in Graduate School. The source may say that he is reading from the document itself but we don't know that to be true. Wherever Anon is getting his information from he may very well be sprinkling it with made up numbers of his own in order to confuse people and provide what is called "plausible denial" which is used quite often in intelligence work.
10 November
You might be right but then again, you might be absolutely wrong. What if your calculations don't work on SERPO? You cannot keep an open mind by saying that on Earth these calculations state......................this. Well, maybe they do on earth. But maybe on SERPO things are different.
10 November
Numbers don't sell people: what's going to make this story real is fleshing it out with details about how ET lives, etc.
What do they eat? What are their favorite dishes? When they procreate, do they get the same enjoyment that mankind does from the activity?
What about this garbage about the "hive-mind" that ET has? Does that relate, or is it a different group of ET's? If so, how do they handle privacy?
There are a million questions to be answered, and stuff about how the planet's orbit are last on the list.
If ET appeared on the White House lawn, would orbital data be interesting to begin a discussion with?
10 November
Kepler's laws apply to normal star systems. Zeta 1 & 2 are a wide binary which is observed not calculated, repeat, observed not calculated. Their masses are roughly
that of our own sun so that constant in Kepler's law can get set to 1. Then you just do the rest. I'm not talking about the physical conditions on SERPO. I'm talking about the orbits of the planets and stars. See link below, Zeta 1 & 2 are separated by one tenth of a light year or 350 billion miles. Said those things a million times also. It's not me, all those numbers can be referenced... www.solstation.com/stars2/zeta-ret.htm

10 November
Victor and All, people on this list with such good questions for Anonymous would probably be interested in Paper 72 of The Urantia Book: A Revelation for
Humanity, titled GOVERNMENT ON A NEIGHBORING PLANET, 1955. It is 11 pages of fine print. Chapter titles include: Political Organization, The Home Life, The Educational System, Industrial Organization, Old-Age Insurance, Taxation, The Special Colleges, The Plan of Universal Suffrage, and Military Preparedness. The presenter of this paper said that the information in this paper would be useful to us on this planet at this time. www.urantia.org
I made this recommendation at the round table on "Democratizing World Governance" during the last State of the World Forum in 2000.
Don Ware
10 November
I'm a military scientist. Here are my observations regarding the SERPO information:

The question of whether the "laws of physics" apply differently from galaxy to galaxy dependent upon their spin is irrelevant to any discussion of Reticuli twins in that they are both part of the same Milky Way galaxy as is our Sun. Moreover, any distortion in our observations of OTHER galaxies which MIGHT result from the spin of our own, would apply across the board, and thus in essence negate itself since there would be no way to logically compare it to similar distortional effects which would effect observers in other galaxies in their efforts to observe us, presuming that both observations were initiated at the exact same moment of Universal time. In other words, if a third observer in some other dimension were able to compare 1 unit of time (say a single oscillation of one atom of cesium) as observed on planet earth, with 1 unit of time equally measured on the planet X in the far-away galaxy of XXXXX, that observer might conclude(after removing all other variables) that the two units were different from his perspective even though both observers in both galaxies might observe and report what they though were the same results.

A cesium clock ticks off one second on planet earth. A twin cesium clock placed in orbit and traveling at orbital velocity also ticks off one second. Observers at each location agree that one second has passed as confirmed by the read-out on their instrumentation. It is only when the two clocks are compared that it becomes obvious that there has been some distortion; yet in attempting to compare them it becomes equally obvious that the same observer cannot ever observe both at EXACTLY the same time (with a bow to Heisenberg). Thus, differences arise NOT from the observation, but from the perspective used to interpret it.

The basic Theorem: Only from an observation platform set in ANOTHER universe would an observer be able to detect and have some basis of accurately comparing distortions being produced locally in THIS universe by differences in the spin rates of the various galaxies of which it is composed. All this aside, unless the inhabitants of SERPO routinely walk on ceilings and through walls, the laws of physics apply the same there as they do here.
Lieutenant Colonel ____ ____
USAF Scientific Advisory Group
11 November
Time pieces would work but would record Earth time. If you had your PC there it would work fine if you could supply it with the correct voltage/amperage and 60 cycles. However, the PC would run on an Earth clock and record Earth time not the time on SERPO, you'd have to update your software to get it to run
on a SERPO clock which is 38 hours not 43. As for how energy is extracted from the vacuum they use what is called a Crystal Rectangle,
see book: www.amazon.com/gp/product/0976642603/002-3958207-8622461
Finally, as for the laws of Physics, an AF Col just emailed us last night and said what's been said all along. The Laws of Physics on SERPO
are no different than they are on Eart, see above... Anon has been stating nonsense when it comes to physical laws........
11 November
If the "Away Team" couldn't make their measuring devices work properly, then why even quote numbers like these?

Is a mile on earth a mile on SERPO? Recall that lengths are now referred to the wavelength of light. Is the light wavelength to be trusted? Does red light generated by excited neon atoms, which has a wavelength of 6328 Angstroms on earth, have some other value in SERPIAN length measurement units? Is there neon on SERPO? (Are their elements the same? Some have speculated that there could be different values for Planck's Constant, c, etc., in different universes.

If SERPO is in another universe all bets are off as to whether or not we could make sense of what is "normal" to them. Talk about "out of the box" thinking.)

Some of you may recognize this as the wavelength of red HeNe laser light.

If a HeNe laser were built on SERPO and the the laser light directed toward earth would the wavelength when received on earth be 6328 Å ? If so, then there should be a simple ratio between SERPIAN length units and ours. If not, then it would be much more difficult or perhaps impossible to derive SERPO physics from our own.

Moons: SERPO has two.
Complicated tides? Distances from planet? relative sizes? Periods?

Day: 43 hours
Whose hours? Makes no sense to quote this as hours unless it is intended to mean our hours, which are related to our seconds (3600 per hour) and each second is a number of oscillations of the atomic clock. If atoms "run differently" on SERPO then not only will wavelengths be different (see above) but also frequencies (time durations of oscillation). Which type of day? Does this refer to rotation of the planet relative to one of the nearby stars or relative to the distant stars? (we measure "sun days" and "distant star" days... they differ slightly because the earth rotates around the sun) ASSUME this "day" is 43 of our hours so there are 154800 of OUR sec in THEIR day as compared to 86400 of OUR sec in our day (approximations used liberally!)

Year: 865 days.
Does this mean our years? Probably not! For someone on SERPO it would be natural to measure a complete rotation around a sun (relative to distant stars) in terms of the rotations of the planet.If we assume this means THEIR days of 43 hours, then their year is (all numbers approximate) 1.3x 108 of OUR seconds, whereas our year is 3.1x107 of OUR seconds. Previously the Kepler law was applied under the assumption that the mass of the sun about which the planet rotates was the same as our sun. However, I, probably incorrectly, used 865 days as 865 of "our" days, which would be 2.37 of our years. I should have accounted for the 43 hour day. A day this long means that the rotation period is actually 865/365 x 43/24 = 4.2 of our years. For the earth, Kepler's rule can be written as follows, using years and AU
as the units of measurement (with 1 AU = radius of earth from sun)
(1)3/(1)2 = 1 (AU)3/(year)2. For a planet rotating about a sun with the mass of or sun in 4.2 years
Kepler's rule is written as r3/(4.2)2 = 1 which leads to a radius of 2.6 AU or 240 million miles, noticeably larger than the 164 million I calculated before.

One problem with this sun data: if strictly interpreted as the distance from one sun is ALWAYS 91.4 million and the distance from the other is ALWAYS 96.5 then we have an "impossibility".... or at least I can't conceive of an orbit that keeps the distance from one constant at one value and at the same time keeps the distance from the other also at one value. I could conceive of an orbit that keeps the distance from one constant while the distance to the other varies with a periodicity that depends upon the period of rotation of the suns about one another and the rotation period (SERPO year) of the planet. If interpreted as average distances from the suns as SERPO travels in an elliptical (or more complicated) orbit, then there may be some way to explain this. Of course, those suns would be orbiting one another at some distance apart so if SERPO did have an orbit that encompassed both suns, then it must orbit the center of mass of the suns (unless there is some complex orbit, as I suggested previously, like a figure 8 or a warped ellipse). Need more info on the suns, orbit, etc.

OTHER AMUSING CALCULATIONS:
DIAMETER: earth: 7,900 mi = 12,700 KM. SERPO 7,200 mi.= 11,600 km
MASS: earth - 6 x 1024 kg SERPO 5 x 1024 kg (assumed to be mass in kg)
AVG DENSITY = mass/([pi/6]D3)
For Earth = 5590 kg/m3
For SERPO = 6,100 kg/m3
g (accel of grav at surface) = GM/(Rsurf)2 where G = 6.7 x 10-11 m3kg-1s-2....
for earth (if you multiply the approximate numbers used here) g = 9.97 m/s2
(when done more accurately, 9.8 m/s2) for SERPO: 9.96 m/s2

AMAZING! (I had no idea that these numbers would come out so close)
(But why does the data table above show 9.60 m/s2. Is G different in the SERPIAN system? )

Tilt 43 degrees.
Are these "earth degrees" of arc? That is quite a tilt, by the way. Would make considerable winter-summer differences in each hemisphere (upper, lower).

Temperature: 43 to 126 deg (F? C?).
Are these their degrees or ours? I presume ours (else why quote them). An interesting experiment would be to determine whether or not the blackbody curve on their planet is the same as on earth. If the physics is really different there might be a difference in BB radiation (which relates electromagnetic wave, thermodynamics and
quantum physics) There are lots more numerical "tests" one could do to compare these two systems. Only by doing such tests can one learn where the differences really are... or if things are the same after all. First applying what is known to some new phenomenon is part of the scientific method. IF what is known
fails to explain the phenomenon, then it is time to move out of the box.

Incidentally, people have been accused of not having an "open mind" because they have asked questions that might illuminate inconsistencies in the story and numerical data. However, I would guess that anyone on this email list has an open mind..... or wouldn't be here. Just be sure not to let your brains fall out.
11 November
Neat! Of course an alternative is that the Suns are somewhat less massive than our Sol (which would shove the Mass ratio of Theirs/Sol < 1 in place of the normalized "1.0" (with the Earth Orbital Distance, and the Earth Orbital Period, the respective Length and Time units), which would mean that larger Periods would prevail at similar Central Star-to-Planet Distance, or less distance result at similar Orbital Period, compared to the Earth-Sol system.

If they were in fact OLDER (relative time over expected lifespan of such and such a mass star) than Sol, then they may already have begun Helium Burning abnd a climb in Brightness, which could allow a bit lower mass stars than Sol to shine as brightly.

Now novel several-body configurations have been found occasionally over the last century, but most effort has gone into the restricted 3-Body problem IN A PLANE. I can imagine a possibility with two similar stars there might be a chance of stable manifold for a a small planet in a 'slow wobbling orbit' around the center of mass of the two suns, approximately with 'normal' axis the instantaneous line between the two stars. I write the quotes around "normal" because I expect the orbit to reside NOT in a Plane but RATHER in a torus centered on the center of mass of the two Stars.

However, the squeaker of a coincidence for surface gravitational acceleration value (9.97 and 9.96 - compared to engineering assumed Earth normal of 9.806 m/s2) you show below suggests that some of the "data" has been cooked in a whimsical way.

If Serpo is slightly similar in size than Earth but has a higher bulk mass density, then I certainly see a possibility of less of the lighter mantle elements O, K, Mg, S, Si than with Earth, certainly less water of hydration in upper mantel rock, and maybe less crustal pore space.
14 November
I’m curious. If Mr Anonymous is retired, as stated, how does he have direct access to the original documents? Paul states all viewing must be inside the secured facility. Rick confirmed that the information is highly guarded. Once retired, does one retain special access to secured facilities?
14 November
From what Mr Anon. has already said about seeking permission from the few surviving managers, I got the impression that his project had long since ceased to be. Maybe he has the document because he was the 'document controller'?
14 November
Perhaps, although I would doubt he would be allowed to take the documents with him on retirement, custodian or not. I doubt military rules and regulations differ that greatly between the States and the UK. Hopefully Rick or Gene will advise on usual procedure, perhaps they can also advise whether there is only one copy of the documents – the original, or were photocopies taken for distribution amongst specialised departments?
14 November
I've already had independent confirmation from three sources now that the late Dr Carl Sagan WAS involved in such a project and Project Serpo served as the inspiration for his '85 novel and '97 movie, "Contact."
15 November
I asked my father, who was a Lieutenant Colonel in the AF during the mid 60s, about the scientific calculator. He said the military had some sophisticated calculators, some used on space missions. He wasn't sure if they were classified or not but knew the NSA had some and assumed the AF had some. For a mission of this importance, I'm sure all the NEW items were taken.

If our team had two energy devices and those devices allowed our team to use Earth based voltage, current and wattage, then why not use it to power the clocks? But maybe there is more to it. Maybe they had to ration the use of the energy devices or maybe there is more to it than we can understand. I'll leave an open mind on this one.

[Pertaining to a private discussion about how easy it would have been to establish communication with alien race] As for the communication problem. We differ here. I have traveled around the world. I spoke conversational Russian and fluent German. Even in Russia, I had problems communicating with the people. Sure, I could speak with them, but I didn't always fully communicate my questions and could not always understand their answers. Understanding customs, social behavior and cultures also are involved in the communication process. I could not imagine living on another planet (although I'd love to try), trying to learn an entirely different form of language and then trying to communicate with a true Alien civilization. I can understand the difficulties they must have had. Mr. Anonymous did state we learned (or at least two members of the team) learned to communicate through a form of sign language. But we are foreign to their civilization, social system, social behavior patterns, etc. We could not possibly understand their communication cycle. Stop and think, on Earth, although there may be different countries, cultures, languages, etc, we still all are human beings. Even without language, we can communicate simple things that are the same in any languages or cultures. However, on a foreign planet, this could not be true.

I agree, 9,000 lbs of supplies for 12 people for a 10 year mission isn't a lot. Military C-Rations weighed about 14 ounces per meal. Now, they did have some special meals created for flight crews. Those meals were packaged in plastic bags, rather than cans, as the old C-Rations were packaged. Maybe they had some special C-Rations. Mr. Anonymous didn't relate how much of the supplies were perishable and how much was equipment. Then maybe there was other equipment that wasn't mentioned.

As for the electric heaters. Maybe our team just came prepared. I spent many years in the military and were forced to take supplies that were not needed. Remember, this was a military mission, they had different protocols than civilian missions.

As for our team wondering around the planet. I agree, we must have taken photographs. Even if we couldn't understand what we were seeing, we could later study the photographs and try to use reasoning and figure it out! But I cannot possibly put myself in that predicament. They were on a new world, not inside a country on planet Earth.

I don't believe Mr. Anonymous is reading from the official report. I think he/she is reading the document and then putting the facts in his own words. Or maybe Victor is changing words to protect Mr. Anonymous.

Mistakes like wattage, compare to amperage or voltage, doesn't seem important to me. If I was reading a medical document, which contains medical terms, I'd probably explain it later using layman's terms. The use of wattage versus amperage (current) could be just a lay person trying to explain something. Maybe the word was amperage or current and Mr. Anonymous remembered it as wattage. Wattage would be important in powering an electrical appliance. If you travel on Earth, you know each country has different voltage.

The water problem can easily be explained. Maybe they meant filter and boil and Mr. Anonymous just didn't state that. I agree that boiling the water just kills the bacteria and doesn't do much to the chemicals, except bring some to the top. Maybe boiling the water meant the entire purification process.

As for the aircraft accident. Can't explain that. But maybe our team was watching a display or was near the airport when it happened. Don't know about this one.

One thing that concerns me is the radiation the team was receiving. I would think the team had some sort of radiation detection equipment. Back then, they had Radacs. We also had dosimeters. I'm sure each team member wore one and must have read it periodically. Knowing this was a military mission, someone must have been designated a health monitor, probably the physicians. If the team realized they were receiving large doses of radiation, why didn't they bring this to the Eben's attention. If the Ebens were so benevolent, then they might have provided some form of protection to the team members or provided them with an anti-radiation pill or something. Or, once the team received the maximum dose, why didn't the Eben's bring them home? One of my former colleagues thinks the radiation could be something different, in another wavelength and thus our team members didn't register that particular radiation dose.

I am keeping an open mind. I have a lot of questions about Mr. Anonymous (could be a she) and the information he/she is providing. He/she sure sounds as if they were there or had some very serious access to the people and information. My uncle was involved in the program. But he had kept pretty quiet about it. He has opened up somewhat since this information has been released but he hasn't analyzed the information, like we and others are doing. I'm waiting to bend his ear during our Thanksgiving get together. Maybe he'll open up.

I have been in contact with many former colleagues. Some had access to the program and stand by Mr. Anonymous information 100%. Others, like myself, who knew about the program but never in any details, are more skeptical.

Lets wait and see what happens regarding the future disclosure process. I do find myself waiting for more information, as if reading a thriller and waiting to turn the next page!
17 November
At the very least, we should let Anon dump all the data he has/can into the public domain then begin an analysis. If he has access to thousands of pages, then we are seeing the most basic summary of a potentially huge and important dataset. I personally don't feel able to make any further judgements as to its veracity until I've read as much as possible.
17 November
For the case of circular orbits around a star - which means the planets' masses must be negligible compared to the mass of the substitute 'Sun', which means that the
mass of the stellar system can be taken as the mass of the star, I already already discussed and showed the dependency of the R3/T2 ratio on the mass of the Star of an Alternative 'Solar' System way back on 9 Nov 2005 on this list - or did no one bother to understand what I wrote? The quote << ... >> is soon below. If the Circular Case requires dependency of the ratio on the mass of the central planetary system's star, then so do the elliptical orbit cases. Of course, in any REAL multi planetary system, no orbit is likely exactly a closed ellipse anyhow, due to interference of other planets - such as Jupiter and Venus in the case of Earth's Orbit, as well of course our Sacred Mother Moon, so the Kepler game is already in an IDEAL WORLD, one of many preferred by the Cowards of Physics, loathe even to admit that the Restricted Three Body Problem of Mathematician Henri Poincare a century ago (SUN, Jupiter and ignorably small mass planet like Mars, in a plane) is NOT QUITE YET EVEN A DONE, DONE Deal, let alone non planar variations, especially when no mass in the system is considered neglect able.

Simulations? ... Hmmmm, maybe say with say 32 bit reals on a Many CPU 'Stupor Confuter' using wildly inappropriate for nonlinear systems imminently parallelizable but oh so weak algorithms?! ... Well, The FASTER IN, the faster out, yes, FASTER but NOT better! Nothing substitutes for highly accurate calculations, good algorithms competent for truly nonlinear systems, and high precision, certainly not SPEED. Then there are STILL those 'SECULAR TERMS' which vexed all! Here's what I wrote 8 days ago, and please note that "PRIMARY" of a 'SOLAR' System has a known Astronomical meaning, which is the STAR at the Center of the Planetary System:

<<begin quote>>

...may have FORGOTTEN that in Kepler's law of ((orbital distance)3)/((orbital period)2) = constant, THE "constant" depends on the MASS OF THE SYSTEM. To maintain equal orbital distances, more massive central stars require higher planetary orbital speeds, hence reduced planetary Orbital Periods, while less massive stars produce equal orbital distances by greater planetary Orbital Periods.

THOUGHT EXPERIMENT in a Simplified Set of 'Solar Systems':
-----------------------------------------------------------
Consider the Sun and Earth - with an assumed circular orbit of Earth about an Unmoving Central Sun (Kepler's idea plus the imposition of a circular rather than general elliptical orbit, to improve simplicity of demonstration) - and consider another system with an Earth-duplicate in same sized orbit about a Star of mass 1/10th of our Sol's, then another system, likewise with an equal Earth of equal 93 million mile circular orbit radius but with the central star of mass 10 times that of our Sol. For simplicity We IMAGINED the orbit of the Earth circular, so - Okay - Venus would have been a more realistic example. Does anyone REALLY believe that the same orbital size of 'Earth' in these three contexts (Our Own System, and two others with 1/10th or 10 times Solar Mass Central Star) prevails AT THE SAME ORBITAL PERIOD of their respective 'Earths'? I hope NOT!

In Newtonian terms, the Gravitational force F on Earth is

(1) F = G*(Mass of System Star)*(Mass of Earth)/(Radius2),

and will be THE Force of Central Acceleration holding the Earth in its (simplified, assumed) 'circular' orbit:

(2) F = (Mass of Earth)*((Earth's Orbit Speed)2)/(Orbital Radius).

From these two equations results

(3) GM/r = v2,

where M is the Central Star's mass, G the Newtonian Universal Gravitational Constant, and v the orbital speed of the Earth. The period of the Earth's Orbit is

T = 2*pi*r/v, so that

(4) T = 2*pi*r/(sqr(GM/r)) = 2pi*r3/2/sqr (GM).

which on manipulation gives

(5) G*M/4*pi2 = r3/T2,

showing the "Keplerian Constant" depends on the Mass of the Planetary System Star. Thus the period for the 'Earth' in the 10 times 'Sol Mass' Star case is about 1/3rd of that the REAL Solar System Case, and one tenth that of the 'Earth' in the 1/10 'Sol Mass' Star case (the square root of 10 is about 3.162). Since the periods vary, but the geometries are the same, the r3/T2 Keplerian Orbital Ratio must calculate to different "Planetary System Constants" in the three cases.

I certainly believe Kepler's laws apply well enough in various systems, including close Separable Binaries, but what I had objected to was an apparent belief of SOME
that the value of the Kepler ratio would be the SAME for various systems of different mass Solar Primaries. Maybe I only misunderstood and accidentally inferred a Physical Forgetfulness on the part of Competent Physicists who should KNOW BETTER.

<<END QUOTE>>

So why do we need a further analysis of The Elliptical Orbit Case, since the above already shows in the circular sub case THAT the 'Constant' Value (IN A SINGLE SYSTEM) of the r3/T2 ratio depends on the Central Star Mass M?!


18 November
Please see below. The planet mass drops out in the derivation. So all you have left is the mass of the Sun or Star. Kepler's third law is independent of planet mass....

Here we have an expression which indicates that T2 is proportional to a3; but the constant of proportionality doesn't look like it is the same quantity for all planets -- after all, it seems to be a function of m and l, which are certainly different for each planet. Thus, we'll continue on with our proof. We know from Kepler's first law that e p = l2/(G m2 M). We can use this information to substitute into our expression for T2 to find that

T2 = 4 pi2 (m2/l2) l2/(G m2 M) a3.

The m2 and l2 cancel, and we are left with

T2 = (4 pi2)/(G M) a3.

The constant of proportionality, (4 pi2)/(G M), is the same quantity for all planets – it depends only on G, the constant of universal gravitation, and M, the mass of the Sun. Therefore, the square of the period of a planet is proportional to the cube of the length of the semimajor axis, and this proportionality is the same for all planets. This is Kepler's third law.
www.alcyone.com/max/physics/kepler/6.html

18 November
The derivation is good for BOTH ellipses and circles.
18 November
What is alarming is the obvious de-linking of the mass ET/EI encounter-phenomenon from the ‘EBEN’ visitation and subsequent ‘exchange programme’. As absolutely fascinating and WOW provoking the EBEN planet is, some of us would like this question answered……

Q: WHY and WHAT are the Aliens doing here on Earth?
20 November
[in response to Anonymous's 9th posting]
Ok, let me get this straight. Kepler's laws would work except one must take into consideration the gravitation pull of the other planets and suns (2) in the SERPO solar system. Dr. Sagan created something that made the equations work based on the information supplied by the Team.

So, what do we have? Dr. Sagan made Kepler's Laws work? Or, Dr Sagan created something different and that worked?
21 November
Nearly 50 years ago, Eric Frank Russell wrote Allamagoosa, the funniest science fiction short story it’s ever been my delight to read. In this exquisite little tale, the captain of a space cruiser is notified that there is to be a mandatory routine inventory inspection. It’s a hassle, but he must comply. After days of work, everything is accounted for except for one item, which reads simply: "offog, one".

No-one can explain the offog and no-one has a clue what it is. Fearful of admitting to his superiors that the item has been lost, he fabricates a little white lie that he’s awfully sorry, but the offog had disintegrated in a hyperspace jump. The story ends with the captain staring at an urgent telex recalling every ship in the galactic fleet – at a cost of trillions of dollars – pending an investigation into the disintegration of the ship’s official dog.

So what’s a "DIM"? Here is another "gross consistency". It rings true that Anon reports this faithfully but does not know what it is. Neither do I: I’ve been staring at my keyboard looking at every combination of typos (like the offog), to no avail. It may well be an acronym – but what for? Maybe the ex-military list members might guess what it is. Furthermore, we need to know if it’s a D.I.M., DIM, a Dim, or a dim. Can Anon clarify?

Here’s one more.

In Dan Sherman’s book, Above Black, in which he reveals how he was groomed and trained as a telepathic communicator with a race of ETs whom he received information from and about but never actually met, Sherman states that he learned that "time" – as we humans know it – does not have the same meaning for "them". They still age as we do but are not bound by the physics of time as we currently are. Their means of travel across vast distances is heavily dependent on the manipulation of time but not as we perceive it.

Sherman asked if they can travel through time: e.g., can they go backward-or-forward in time? He was told that it was not possible to witness a reality that occurred in some other time but the present. In order to go back in time, one must assume that there exists a reference point from which to measure backward or forward. This is an impossibility. Essentially, they weren't able to travel through time but around time and from time. Sherman says he never really understood what this meant. Their mode of propulsion was somehow that they used "time" and electromagnetic energy. Also they said that our sun was very unique; and that someday we would understand how it really worked and how we could utilize the same methods that they themselves use but on a smaller scale.

(references: www.stealthskater.com/Documents/Sherman_1.doc, www.aboveblack.com)

There are other candidates for "gross consistencies", but I’ll keep my powder dry for the moment. I’m noting them carefully. The problem, of course, with these is that they might also be reasons to dismiss everything. It’s like strawberry ice cream. I lean to thinking that (like the anomalous orbital data) that’s so absurd it has to be true, because no-one would dare invent it. The false information component of disinformation has to be credible for the purpose of the disinformation to be achieved.
Logically there are four possibilities:

1) Anon is a pathological prankster and the reported data is either all invented or clumsily culled from other sources and added to a wild novelistic story.

2) Anon is operating to an agenda and the information is deliberately distorted, but contains a core of extraordinary truth.

3) Anon is doing his best to report data from an indirect source (personal notes, his own short or long term memory, or another person), but accidental errors, omissions and additions have occurred.

4) Anon is reporting everything faithfully and accurately as best he can present it.

Only possibility (1) means everything should be rejected. The other three necessarily mean that the story deserves close attention.
22 November
I'm always interested in hearing about Dan Sherman, a case that I think has been HIGHLY ignored.

You may know that there is a huge amount of information in the available literature, reportedly coming from contacts with off world beings, that supports what Dan Sherman states he was told. Specifically that the nature of "time" is not at all like we think about it. In many cases, the beings have even said that "time" does not exist. I feel they mean for themselves and their technology, it does not exist. After all, if you can travel into the past and future at will, does "time" still exist. If one had a teleporter into which you could step and it would instantly send you to any place on earth, one might say that (with that technology) "distance" no longer exists. If your transportation time is near instantaneous, does distance matter any longer? Conceptually, no! Distance is no longer a barrier to travel and usually our current distance barriers also includes the time component for making ones way across that distance. Some feel that the time itself is the main factor. If not, why would we be building faster and faster jets and planning hypersonic craft to get us there even more quickly?

One case I've studied extensively says the beings are capable of near instantaneous jumps in distance that we simply cannot imagine. They claim that once technology reaches the point where one can access a certain "extra-dimensional" area of the universe, travel over millions of light years is accomplished in the blink of an eye. Our science fiction can imagine that, but most of our real minds simply cannot believe it. But, if true, as in the teleporter example above, then distance and time become just concepts and no longer barriers. So distance and time would "no longer exist." Obviously, that's a technicality, a concept, because the miles between points are still the same - but the "time" it takes to cross the distance has essentially dissolved. Some type of system for measurement for crew changes, sleep periods, meeting times, etc. would still need to exist, simply for convenience and scheduling sake, so things operate in some sort of sync.

You may have also heard that some offworlders have stated that there are multiple timelines of existence. And that if you go back to the same point in time on several different occasions, some things may be slightly different each time (the idea of free will modifying events in parallel tracks of time so that the generalities are there, but the absolute specifics can vary). Is that true? Hey, maybe one day we'll know - but I'm not holding my breath. Ha! The only hope for really understanding fascinating things like these any time soon is to get a little help from those alien beings that are so far advanced. So, if you happen to know any, send them over to my place... I've got a lot of questions to ask them! :)

PS: The worrisome thing for me about Dan Sherman's information is that he was trained for the time when there would be a huge disruption of the worlds communication systems from some disaster. The end of that Mayan calendar is fast approaching and some of the alien beings have said that there is a severe problem with the planet looming. That's gonna' hit right about the time I'm supposed to retire! BUMMER! :)
22 November
What sort of combination of polar axis tilt and planet rotation about its axis would result in 35 hours of daylight and 3 of night at some location on the plane for anything other than a relatively short time during the 600 day year?

A location where the sun shines for 35/38 of a day must be just "below" the equivalent of our arctic circle. 54 degree tilt means that their "arctic circle " is at latitude 26 deg. Assuming the rotational angular momentum is conserved for the planet in the book (ooops, but maybe we can't assume this for the SERPIAN SYSTEM where nutty professors are not allowed to assume anything about the physics?) then the planet has seasons because the spin axis points in the same direction (relative to the distant stars.... a "Machian" effect) as the planet goes around its star . A location where, at some time during the year, there are 3 hours of darkness (assumed to be loss of light from a SINGLE sun) in a 38 hour rotation period must be at a latitude a few degrees lower than 26 degrees, i.e., rather close to the SERPIAN equator. So for summertime in the "northern hemisphere" we have 35 hours of daylight,3 hours dark. Conversely, 300 days later (1/2 year) there is winter in the northern hemisphere and the sun is above the horizon for about 3 hours and the rest of the day is dark. Sounds as if it would get quite cold in the winter.
23 November
Ok, what did this guy say? Is he right? I hear about a 100 different descriptions of Kepler's law.
23 November
The senior theory (essentially proven) is Newton's inverse square law for gravity. For a simple system, Kepler's Laws are a fallout of what a planetary solution looks like (for the simple case of a single planet circling a massive sun). For a complex situation (like a planet interacting with two suns, several planets, or whatever) you have to go back to Newton's law and solve a many-body problem which takes a computer. In this case Kepler's Laws are only an approximation, since they hold only for the simplest case.
24 November
The EBE-1 and EBE-2 information is very consistent with what has been astronomically observed for Zeta 1 & 2. Meaning the 4th planet from Zeta 2 for EBE-1 and the 3rd planet from Zeta 1 for EBE-2. They are mentioned in the context of two separate solar systems. So, you're willing to trash all that information because of what Anon says? I'm sure not for the one big reason I just cited or, that EBE information is very consistent with what's been observed scientifically...
25 November
The thought occurred to me that another explanation for some of the anomalies in Anon’s single expanded account (i.e. taking all the data together) might be that the data from two different planets, in two different systems (maybe from two different exchanges!) had somehow got all compressed into one, possibly through totally innocent reasons. If we hypothesise that, many if not all of the difficulties would immediately be resolved.
25 November
We need to keep collecting data until the anomalies really drop out; and if you take the entirety of data in the UFOlogical field, there are a lot of anomalies!! The one thing I think we can be sure of and all agree on is that SOME of it is correct. That’s the common ground of everyone on the list, the thing that unites us. The rest is detail.
28 November
Incidentally, the "senior theory" mentioned above, re: Newton's gravitational attraction law, is only part of the "equation". The other parts are:
(1) the equivalence of inertial and gravitational mass, and
(2) the centrifugal force due to orbiting keeps the suns from crashing together and is balanced: M1 omega2 R1 = M2 omega2 R2, where omega is the angular rate of rotation, (v1/R1 = v2/R2). Each M is the inertial mass which has been shown to equal the gravitational mass and is a basis for Einstein's theory of gravity.

This centrifugal force (each sun pulling on the other) is what results in the rotation about the center of mass at some location along the line joining the the two suns. The center of mass is found by using R = R1 + R2 and M1R1 = M2R2, where R is the distance between the suns and the gravitational force between the suns is GM1M2/R2. When M1 = M2 the center of mass is at the center point of the line joining the centers of the suns. When one mass is huge compared to the other (as with a planet orbiting a sun), the center of mass becomes very close to the center of the most massive sun and the sun "stands still" as the planet orbits.

Note that the recent discoveries of planets have been based on the fact that if a planet is heavy enough the center of mass of the sun-planet system will not be at the center of the sun. In this case the sun orbits the center of mass and this orbiting can produce a doppler shift in the spectrum of light from the sun as the sun goes around the center of mass.
29 November
Interesting, to say the least. But I have several questions regarding the language problems. As I understand from previous postings, when our team landed on SERPO, they had trouble with the language. Now this seems to contradict that information. If our team had over one year to hone their Eben language skills, why did they have problem upon arrival to the planet? Is there more than one language spoken on SERPO?

I realize how difficult learning a foreign language can be. I learned Russian several years ago. I went through one year of Russian language training. That didn't make me an expert in the language. God knows how difficult the Eben language would be to learn. No words, just sounds and tones. How would we, as humans, be able to speak it? Would we have to make certain sounds or tones? I can't understand how humans could do that.
29 November
Gene's Final Report Number does look like the system used AFOSI from the 1980s. 80HQD would be HQ AFOSI 1980. Examples: 8017D would be AFOSI District 17 Kirtland AFB, NM. 80PJD would be a Special Unit which operated out of Nevada and in the 80's.
30 November
Reference the earlier comment below: Zeta Ret 1 only has 79% of the luminosity of our own sun. That and the distance of 1.39 AU from their own sun would explain the big eyes. Those 35 hour days and 3 hours of darkness would compensate for the less luminosity and distance but not totally. They'd still have those big eyes.....

4 November:
‘Falcon’ states the Eben climate is cooler and that they ‘can’t stand a lot of heat’, which obviously conflicts with Anonymous 1 statements. Again as Tim and myself have pointed out the general rule of thumb, big eyes = poor light conditions. A biological entity evolving on a planet with 35 hours of daylight within a 38 hour period is unlikely to have developed the eyes that have become so characteristic of the Grey [Eben]…...


30 November
I have looked up DIM in the military reference manuals. Here is what I gathered:
1. DIM - Defense Intelligence Manual
2. DIM - Digital Intelligence Message (came out in 1992)
3. DIM - Direct Image Message (an intelligence photo term)
4. DIM - Dynometer Instrument Metabolism (have no idea what this is)
5. DIM - Delicate Image Module (some sort of photo analysis machine)
That is all I can find. But my reference material is new. I can't find anything older than 1985.
1 December
Having served my country for 20 years, I do know that any military units would take back up weapons. Remember, we had no idea what to expect on Serpo. I find it very smart for our team to take such a device. Don't think in present day terms, think back then.
1 December
I would like to suggest a new way of looking at time, which seems to clear up some of the Anonymous references.

If any particle, say an electron, is given a 'push', it doesn't move immediately: it just sits there for a time known as 'Tau': 2e2/3mc3, or 6.26 x 10-24 seconds. After that time, it is instantaneously found to be moving at whatever velocity the 'push' imparts to it. This non-local behavior in time has been known for better than half a century, and is mostly just ignored as 'too small' to worry about. This was the conclusion of F. Rohrlich in 1962: "The Theory of the Electron":

www.philsoc.org/1962Spring/1526transcript.html

In his equation 9, he (incorrectly) derives this same time, 6 x 10-24 seconds, noting that it represents "a non-local behavior in time" with "a lack of causality" at these time-intervals, but 'too small' to inviolate the theory.

However in particle colliders, this time interval can't be ignored, for every interaction, however violent, takes this minimum time before anything 'happens'. Modern non-technical 'explanations' of this can be found several places, for instance in Dr. Sam Treiman's book "The Odd Quantum" (Princeton University Press, 2000) pp. 97-98 in which he shows that the wave function does not change from T = 0 to T = Tau, with all the change happening at the latter point.

If this same behavior were measured as the output of an analog-to-digital converter, say a music synthesizer, it would be instantly recognized that the time Tau was the interval between digital slices of the analog wave. To put it more simply, a digital converter puts an analog wave, say a musical sequence, through a 'baloney slicer', giving a digital number to each intercept of the wave by each 'slice'. In the electron's case, the impulse is delivered at T = 0, but there is no measurement until the later time T = Tau, at which time the next 'slice' shows all the change in the analog wave over the (unmeasured) interval Tau. (The digital number is a 'point-particle' result, although the electron is and has evolved as 'wave'.)

This leads directly to the conclusion that time is quantized, a frequency, the interval Tau being the time between 'baloney slices' of an analog wave, the 'refresh rate' of our reality. Heisenberg was groping toward this conclusion, noting that Planck's Constant 'h' was not a 'pure' constant, but a constant of proportionality. He always thought it was the 'shadow' of some 'pure' constant in some other dimension: he chose distance, deriving the above relationship as a distance, 2e2/3mc2, or about 1.8 x 10-15 meters. (This is the measured diameter of the nucleon, NOT a coincidence.) He tried to slice the universe into tiny cubes this size, but this didn't work, so he abandoned it.

However Planck's Constant has the dimensions of energy times time. Since Planck was working with black-body energy, it has always simply been assumed that energy is quantized. However everything works exactly the same if one assumes that time is the quantized entity. And as Heisenberg noted, this interval, whether measured as distance or time, is exactly the 'width' of the uncertainty relationship, as of course the analog wave is unmeasured, hence uncertain, anywhere between 'slices'.

This conclusion, that time is quantized, or a frequency, of course has immense implications, the most startling perhaps being that we may live in a 'virtual', rather than a 'real', reality.

However if one recognizes that time is a frequency, one can then look for means of altering this frequency. This might mean that ones subjective time might remain the same, but the 'rest of the universe' might flash by much faster. "Visitors" have always said that time is much different from our understanding of it. I don't have the reference in front of me, but in the book "Witnessed" by Budd Hopkins an abductee describes being taken from a pool party in the midst of her family, which was frozen in place, splash from the pool hanging in air. Such a change in time's frequency might result in a journey of thirty-some light years taking only seven months or so.

Further implications of quantized time can be found in my papers, published in "Infinite Energy" magazine, issues 43, and 44, and available on the web at
www.openseti.org/Docs/HotsonPart1.pdf
and
www.openseti.org/Docs/HotsonPart2.pdf
2 December
DIM Was "Duty-Information-Manual". The actual operations plan for the journey.

Paul [McGovern]

2 December
[This information, reported verbatim below, was supplied to Bill Ryan personally by an active duty Air Force Lieutenant Colonel assigned to the Pentagon. I (BR) have been in correspondence with him on a number of topics and have found him to be measured, intelligent, thorough, reliable and honest, as well as being a most pleasant and decent man. He wishes his name to be withheld but would like this new information to be made known.

The correspondent's friend, referred to below, is a retired Air Force Colonel, who worked in Air Force Intelligence for 33 years (a later correction of the estimated figure of 30 years as originally stated).
]

Yesterday, I visited an old retired USAF Colonel. This Colonel had served 30 years in USAF Intelligence. I don't know his exact time frame but it was sometime around 1955 to 1985. I have been friends with this Colonel for about five years. His son, who is also my friend, serves in my unit. Because of his extensive intelligence time, I wanted to run all this past him to see if he might know something about the information being released by Victor. The Colonel doesn't have email so I printed all the information from Anonymous and provided him a copy. I watched him read the most current email, one with all the postings. I watched his eyes and facial expressions. After he was finished, he stated, "Oh my God, who on this Earth would release such classified material"? I then asked him if all this information was real. His simple answer was, "yes, all real". I then asked the Colonel if he had been involved with this project. He said, yes, he was involved in the communications aspect of this operation from about 1961 until 1965. He was also on the debriefing team. He wouldn't provide too much information, saying that unless he saw that all information was declassified, he could not comment on details. I thanked him and left.

I was startled, to say the least. Wow, this is actually true. I always thought some of it was true but I had some doubts about details that have been released.

We may just be on the Verge of a major release of information about the most important part of our History.
8 December
I was stationed at RAF Bentwaters in the UK when Spielberg's "Close Encounters of the Third Kind" first made its way around the overseas circuit. As was customary, the "Daily Bulletin" (an informal posting of each day's events) included mention of CE III as feature-of-the-day at the base theater.

"Daily Bulletins" were a single-page feature displayed at a particular spot on every unit's official bulletin board. It was replaced every day, and each military member was expected to read it. What I found most interesting was mention in this particular bulletin that everybody should go see this particular movie.

I could not remember any such advice in previous bulletins, and never saw it repeated during the three years I was there. For whatever reason, someone obviously thought Close Encounters an important film...

23 December
I just went through today's posting and have compiled every reference to a team member or specific Eben that comes up. I believe that we can infer their duties from what has been given so far:

The following list of quotes is from the eleventh posting:

899 and 203 will have overall charge of weapons.
700 and 754 will give each member final check before boarding.
475 really nervous. 700 will watch him.
102 sitting next to me and he is faint.
OK, I guess 203 and myself will sit in different location above these seats.
420 will try to use his language skills.
899 will taste it. Well, 899 said it tastes like paper.
OK, MVC finally showed up. Told us we will begin trip soon.
Well, 899 figured out how to get out because he is standing up.
899 said a EBE came in and looked at us and left. Other team members sleeping. 899 and myself walking around this room.
700 and 754 gave us medicine to settle our stomachs.
700 and 754 tells us to eat and drink the water we brought along we are doing that and feel a little better...
Our date recorder isn't working very well, according to 633. He thinks we have been going for 10 days but not really sure.
700 and 754, who ate the EBE food didn't seem to be as sick as us.
We drink that and seem to be better, except 518, who seem to be sick.
633 and 661 were really interested in this [command room]. 633 seemed better.
OK, MVC finally arrived. He explains in broken English, that we are halfway to home planet.
633 wants to see the engines. MVC takes four of us to the engine room or whatever they wish to call the room.

From these passages we can begin to figure out the role of each member of the team:

(no number) Commander (Male)
102 (Male)
203 Weapons duties (security?)
420 Linguist (Male)
475 (Male)
518
633 Scientist or pilot (Male)
661 Scientist or pilot
700 Doctor
754 Doctor
899 Weapons duties (Male) (security?)
MVC Alien guide/translator.

One of the crew members hasn't been mentioned yet.

*************
[And then another forum member pointed out:]
The team member not mentioned in the first journal entry seems to be the female linguist mentioned in Anon's 2nd posting, since the only linguist mentioned in the journal entry appears to be male.
"There were two females, one being a doctor and the other being a linguist."
"420 will try to use his language skills."


29 December

Regarding the ED (Energy Device) recovered from the (presumably) downed Roswell ship, the dimensions quoted in the 'Exempt from Disclosure' book are 8.24" wide, 11.65" tall, and 2.8" thick. With the exception of thickness, this is close to what what Anonymous reported in answer to a question about the ED.

Within an assumed measuring accuracy of 2 decimal places, the height is EXACTLY a square root two multiple of the width.

If one further assumes that the Ebens used integer units for the external dimensions of the ED (if only to simplify documentation!), this equates to units of 53 wide, 75 tall and 18 thick. Thus it is possible that the Zeta Reticuli Unit of measurement is approximately 3.95mm.

'Exempt from Disclosure' mentions that the ED was taken on many Space Shuttle missions, and was tested on the International Space Station. This was reported to be up to 1100V at 100A draw, without significant heating being observed. Certainly enough power to lift a helicopter-like personal transporter device over the surface of the Eben planet!


14 February 2006

Victor Martinez published the following messages he had received over the preceding weeks and months and had never hitherto made public:

Subject(s): "Project CRYSTAL KNIGHT" "Project SERPO" and "Project BISHOP"

From: ANONYMOUS
 
VICTOR:
To help further reinforce the credibility of "Project SERPO," my group
and I -- the DIA-6 -- have gathered some brief, but powerful
testimonials from various USM people involved with "Project SERPO." Here
are some of those testimonials; as always, we ask that you cut, copy &
paste the material to mask the origin for all of these e-mails
especially the ones sent directly to you.
Thanks for your help.
------------------------------------------
"Project SERPO" 12 Team Members

Team Commander
Assistant Team Commander
Team Pilot #1
Team Pilot #2
Linguist #1
Linguist #2
Biologist
Scientist #1
Scientist #2
Doctor #1
Doctor #2
Security

102
203
225
308
420
475
518
633
661
700
754
899

------------------------------------------

"Project CRYSTAL KNIGHT" was started in the early 1960s.  This was
part of the original U.S. Space Program, where U.S. military pilots were
selected for astronauts. But the military program was classified "Top
Secret" because their program involved an exchange of Extraterrestrial
Biological Entities (EBEs).

The EBEs came from another planet.  They called themselves "Ebens" and
came from the planet SERPO in the Zeta Reticular Star System, 42 light
years away. The Ebens first came to Earth about 2,000 years ago and
were involved in the genetic examination of Earth humans.

The Ebens then left and returned in the early '40s, setting up a base
in northern New Mexico. In 1947, two of their spacecrafts crashed in
southern New Mexico. We discovered them and began a relationship with
the Ebens.

"Project CRYSTAL KNIGHT" was a program that exchanged 12 American
astronauts with three Ebens. Our astronauts left on an Eben
spacecraft and traveled to the planet SERPO for 12 years, returning in
1978.

We are reading about this program in these releases. I was involved
in the later program which came after 1978.  We had an
additional exchange program set up, under "Project BISHOP," but
President Reagan cancelled the project in 1985.
------------------------------------------

I was involved in "Project CRYSTAL KNIGHT" from about 1960 until
1965. I was assigned as a civilian to this project. I was a CIA
employee, with a specialty of survival in a foreign environment. I was
a training instructor at the CIA training camp in Virginia. I
trained the 12 men -- NO women -- who went on this mission. 
They spent about eight months at our training facility. Few knew
their exact mission, which was classified "Top Secret/Codeword." I had
no other involvement with this mission after 1965. I was very
surprised to hear this story come to light now after all these years.
------------------------------------------

I was involved with this program years ago. I was an Air Force Captain
assigned to a training element at Tyndall Air Base Florida. We trained
these 12 in astronaut procedures. We didn't really know their final
mission, but we did know they were going into space.

I didn't realize their fate until they returned. I read the classified
report and first thought it was a work of fiction. But as I read the
report, I realized these 12 men went to another planet, lived among
aliens and returned.  Four died and eight returned. 
------------------------------------------ 

The "Project SERPO" information that I just read is NOT totally
correct. There were two women in the original 16 selected for
training. I helped train the team, including the two women. 
But after the final selection process -- which did not involve any
combat training like what was mentioned on the Web site,
www.serpo.org -- the two women were dropped from the list.
During the training, the Team Members didn't know their actual
assignment.  When the final cut was made, the 12 selected were
sent to a military prison and then told of the assignment. The 12
were isolated from that point on. The 12 were removed from the
payroll of the government and placed in a special file within the
Defense Intelligence Agency. The DIA was the controlling agency
in "Project CRYSTAL KNIGHT" which was the name of the operation. 
------------------------------------------

To comprehend the matter involving "Project SERPO," one must understand
the complexity of the United States Government.  "Project CRYSTAL
KNIGHT" pertained to the training and relocation of 12 brave United
States Military Men to a foreign alien planet, 42 light years from
Earth.  I was one person in charge of a final phase of
training. I was one person who knew the operation. I was one person
who knew the names of those involved.

However, I never knew the names of the 12 men sent on that special long
distance mission. The names were classified. The 12 had numbers,
three-digit numbers. But all of the training instructors, mission
directors and project managers used their real names. I would believe
that most of the older personnel involved in this project are
dead. But some of us are still alive. I was shocked and outraged
when I first heard about the release.

This must be a Defense Intelligence Agency programmed release. I
cannot believe that the DIA would allow someone to release this
sensitive, highly classified operation without the proper approval. 
This must be a segmented release project fully controlled by the
DIA. Why? I wouldn't even wish to begin to guess the reason. 
I am awaiting further release of the photographs, which I know exists
because I saw them. There are sixteen books of photographs
retrieved from the Team Members who returned. Only eight men
returned. Two died on the planet and two remained for some
unknown reason. Those two did not wish to return to Earth. But the
returning crew brought back thousands of photographs.
------------------------------------------

A friend told me about a web site that tells a story of 12 men and women
going on a space journey to an alien planet about 40 light years away
from Earth. Since I am a retired Air Force Major, my friend asked me
if I ever heard of such a story. I told my friend the entire story was
just a story with no truth. But I knew of such a story because I was a
key official in this story.

In 1954 while assigned to Briggs Air Base Texas, I was a young
lieutenant in the communications squadron.  Six of us went TDY to
Holloman to check out a piece of equipment that was made by a
contractor, as we were told.  Well, the equipment was nothing like I
had ever seen, nor had the Master Sergeant -- assigned to the team and
who had been in the AF for twice the time I was in -- ever saw anything
like that.

It looked like a present day computer with a satellite dish attached to
the side. It had a large connecting port for some type of connector
that no one was familiar with.  The keyboard had strange symbols.  I
first thought it was Chinese. But was told it wasn't. I couldn't
figure out why a contractor would make such a piece of equipment that no
one could understand.  Maybe it was a test or something.  Well, we
all failed the test because we couldn't figure out what it was. 
Then three of us -- the master sergeant, a technical sergeant and
myself -- were chosen for a special team that would try to figure out
this equipment. All toll, there were 15 of us on this special
communication team. We spent about four years total on this
project. We managed to get the thing working with the assistance of
another box that was attached to this communication thing. 
About 11 months into this project, we all figured out this thing came
from another planet. When we asked the senior officials, they said,
yes, it came from Mars. Pretty shocking to us that we had life on
Mars. But towards the end of my involvement in this project, I was
told it came from a crashed space alien ship that was found in New
Mexico. I asked how they knew it came from Mars and they told me it
wasn't Mars, but some other planet, many light years away from Earth.
We managed to communicate with these aliens and we even sent them
signals using some language found in this spaceship. In 1964, I left
the program and never knew what happened after that.  Now I know. I'm
happy [to learn] that our team effort really made a difference.
------------------------------------------

My father died in 1995. He was retired from the U.S. Air Force. In
1990, he told me a story about a special mission that he
was involved in back in 1965. He told me that this mission was about
12 military astronauts that went to another planet in a spaceship that
was found in the New Mexico desert.

He said the 12 men were trained at Tyndall Air Force Base, Florida,
where he was stationed. He helped train the 12 in space endurance,
which he was trained to do. He said the 12 left in 1965 and came back
in 1978 and he was there to check them after they returned to this
planet, Earth. I didn't know what to think about my dad's story. 
Back then, I just listened to him and thought maybe he was just making
this up. But now, I realise he was telling the truth. It is too late
for my father to know about this, but I know my father was being
truthful to me and that makes me feel good. I look forward to reading
more about this incredible story.
------------------------------------------

Having been involved with the Defense Intelligence Agency for 35
years, I am well aware that this project is real. Whether the actual
released information from this "ANONYMOUS" character is correct is
another story.

I don't recall the exact details of the debriefing, but I know there
were thousand of hours of audio recordings done on the old-style
military voice recording tapes. To the best of my knowledge, those
tapes are locked up in a secure vault within DIA headquarters at Bolling
Air Force Base, Washington, D.C.

I cannot for the life of me figure out WHY this information is being
released now. I caution all involved that this might be some "rogue" DIA
warrior that is trying to embarrass the DIA.
------------------------------------------

I am a retired Army Colonel. I was stationed at the Defense Language
Institute (DLA) in the early '50s. My specialty was languages. I spoke
five different languages.

I was sent on a temporary duty assignment to  the  Special
Intelligence Center Ft. Belvoir, Maryland in 1964. When I arrived,
I was given a dictaphone recording of a language.  I listened to
that language and realized it was something I had never heard before. 
It didn't sound like a language, but more like pitches and tones
created by some device. I was later told this language was an alien
language and that I, along with others, would have to somehow translate
it.

Our team (18 language specialists) worked on this for six months but
couldn't crack it.  I then learned of a special operation mission of
12 astronauts to an alien planet. The 12 had to learn this language, but
it was almost impossible for us to teach a language like this. We
never did learn a single word and to the best of my knowledge, neither
did the astronauts.
------------------------------------------

I was assigned to Holloman AFB in 1963 to 1966. I remember the famous
UFO landing incident. I was an Air Policeman assigned to the landing
location, not at Holloman AFB, but at White Sands.

I saw the actual landing of the space ship. I saw the aliens get off
the spaceship. I saw the military colonels meet with the aliens. A
friend of mine who was also an AP, was assigned to guard a bus of 12
people. These 12 were to have gotten on the ship, but for some reason
they didn't go. We were sworn to keep our mouths shut. We had to
sign a security statement saying that if we violated it, we would be
sent to Ft. Leavenworth for life without a trial.

I got out of the U.S. Air Force in 1968 after serving in Vietnam. I
guess after 38 years, I feel safe talking about this. I knew most of the
26 Air Force policeman at the landing site and most have died. But
I know of six, including me, who are still living and know the real
story of the landing.  Reading this stuff about Project
SERPO puts it all together for me now. 
------------------------------------------

The SERPO Project was real but the story line is not. One must
carefully consider the source, who won't identify him or herself. Why
would someone release this information now? It wouldn't be difficult
for someone employed by the DIA to learn of this past project. 
But it would be almost impossible to gain access to the information. I
believe that someone got a hold of the basic project information and now
is making up the rest of the story.
------------------------------------------

Most of this stuff is the truth, but the details may be a little
exaggerated. I wouldn't believe all of it. Sounds like some type of
disinformation program to me. The basic program called "Project
CRYSTAL KNIGHT" was right, but it involved just 12 men [NO women], who
were part of the astronaut program, nothing more or nothing special.
------------------------------------------

MOST of the released information is truthful. I never saw, nor read
the diary. Maybe the diary contains information from various Team
Members, rather than just the Team Commander.

The final report is contained in a document entitled, "QW." The title
was classified. The document number is: #80-0398154. Maybe someone
should request a Freedom of Information Release [Act] on that.

[MODERATOR's (VM's) NOTE: This conflicts with the original information provided
by ANONYMOUS; The complete debriefing is contained in: "Project SERPO,"
Final Report-80HQD893-020, Classified T/S, Codeword.]

------------------------------------------

Somebody better go back and dig up the original stuff, Air Force
Document:
QW-1980-03-98154.
------------------------------------------

I cannot believe our government has let this information out! What
idiots! This stuff was supposed to be used to further our
technology. The "Project SERPO" people gave us hundreds of
gadgets. We just haven't figured them all out yet. Now everyone and
their uncle will be snooping into all the secret stuff. 
------------------------------------------

The program was started in 1956.  The program was in the Pentagon's
"Office of Special Missions." The Commander of the Office was
Brigadier Gen Wilbur Abrams, U.S. Army. To the best of my knowledge,
there were two females involved in the first team. 
------------------------------------------

I was involved in the original program. It started in 1956 and ran
until 1964, when the visitors landed at White Sands.  Somebody screwed
up because our Team was ready to go, but the visitors didn't want to
take them. What a screw up!  But we made arrangements for the
following year. 
------------------------------------------

Right on, guys, pretty accurate. However, I wouldn't
want to be in your shoes once this gets to the White House!


8 March 2006

"From that point on, they were identified by number only. Even each Team Member identified the others by their three-digit number. They were never to use their real names. Once they left planet Earth and traveled on to Serpo, they gave each other nicknames. For example, the Team Commander was identified as, "Skipper," the medical officers were identified as "Doc-1" and "Doc-2," the pilots were identified as, "Sky-King" and "Flash-Gordon." Even though it wouldn't make any difference if they used their real names on Serpo, they were disciplined enough to continue either using the nicknames or the three-digit numbers."

I just wanted to point out that although most Americans today would be familiar with Flash Gordon, only older people would be familiar with Sky King.
Sky King was on the radio from 1946 to 1954 and on TV from 1951 to 1959. Reruns were shown on Saturday afternoons until 1966.
Many men and women became military, commercial, and private pilots as result of listening to Sky King and Penny on the radio or watching them on TV.

http://www.fiftiesweb.com/tv/sky-king.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sky_King

http://members.cox.net/skykingtv/skyking.html

http://members.cox.net/skykingtv/skycom.html

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0043232

Most people today have either never heard of Sky King or have long forgotten about him. However, it wouldn't be surprising that a young pilot in 1965 would have adopted the nickname of "Sky King."


9 March 2006

Ref SERPO. Back in 1985 Ernie Kellerstrass told me an interesting story that while he was assigned to FTD-WP from 1975 to his retirement in 1979 he ran across a very spooked individual in his section or FTD/TQTR which is where I worked starting in 1983. This individual kept saying that we had turned humans over to the Aliens for nefarious reasons. The guy eventually had a nervous breakdown and was moved out of the section. I didn't connect things up until I contacted Rick [Doty] in 1998 who said he knew of the case. It seems this person was present at NTS in 1965 and witnessed the exchange taking place. He was later reassigned to FTD-WP. I don't know how long he had been at FTD before having the nervous breakdown but it sounded like Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome (PTSD) which can occur years after the event. Also, in below Darren Edmunson mentioned the 1965 exchange to me in a 2000 e-mail. Both Darren and Paul McGovern knew Ernie..... Robert Collins

Subject: Re: James Jesus Angleton
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 10:59:39 EST

Robert,

According to my contacts, Angleton was never a member of MJ12. He might have
been privy to some information from MJ12 but never a member.

Angleton, in 1970, wrote a counterintelligence assessment of the UFO
phenomena In this document, Angleton mentioned the Roswell incident, an
incident in the New Mexican Desert in 1964 and an exchange program between
EBEs and us in 1965 and 1969. This document was entitled, "Assessment
Number 7." I know Rick Doty read this along with some other former gov
employees. Maybe Erni Kellerstrass and Tom Mack. The document was
classified Top Secret, codeword, with limited distribution. I saw the
document while assigned to AF Intel in the late 70s.

Too bad we couldn't get our hands on this document. I'm sure it is tucked
away in some obscure vault with CIA headquarters.

Darren